Droughts

Floods, droughts, tsunami's and other natural disasters affecting coolthaihouse.members.

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Re: Droughts

Postby Roger Ramjet » Wed Jul 15, 2015 7:45 am

textalk wrote:Thanks for the explanation and clarification RR.

There is nothing like being on site and having the knowledge to discern fact from fiction. You would think something as basic as the water supply would be under control of competent people by now.

Looks like I need to keep one foot rooted in the homeland because those running Thailand really scare me.


Separating fact from fiction here is at times almost impossible and the newspapers are scared to print half of what they know for fear of offending someone in high places. A prime example is a little online newspaper called Phuketwan http://phuketwan.com/ The editor and one of his staff helped Rueters do their investigative report into the smuggling of the Rohingya which won them a Pulwitzer Prize. Phuketwan printed just one paragraph from the Rueters report in their small online paper that the Navy took offence to, so the Navy charged them with defamation. The Royal Thai Navy were never mentioned in the Phuketwan report, but the Thai Navy took offence and charged them under the Computer Crimes Act, yet Rueters who did the investigative report have not been charged, yet they have an office in Bangkok. The court (small c for that) and the judge (small j for him) are currently hearing the case. Despite international outrage and massive pressure the Thai Navy wants its pint of blood, even though they were never mentioned. It is now an ego thing with no known outcome as yet, except someone was offended by the truth and even though most of the camps with dead bodies have been found and closed in Thailand and the international media have documented proof of everything that happened, the Thai Navy demand "justice", Thai style.
The whole country is run on the feudal system with everyone having their own little fiefdoms and woe betide any interfering "farang" who should step on the toes of a "puyai or puyang" (read rich spoilt Thai "elite"), or heaven forbid the military. And because the Thai elite and military comprise just just 7% of the population they never get their party, the democrats elected, except in Bangkok and in the trouble south and Bangkok is iffy after the last flood.
All they (Thai elite and democrats) do is talk about corruption, but never prove it, stacking of the ballot boxes, which are under international surveillance and they have no policies to take the country forwards so that when they don't get elected their only recourse is to hold another coup and tear up the old constitution and write a new one. What they haven't woken up to yet is that Thaksin gave the normal people health care they could afford and bought in populist policies that benfitted the poor. He had to go, so there was a coup. When his sister Yinluck was elected she bought with her another populist policy about rice that gave all the rice farmers a break. That's how governments are elected by populist policies, not by being a puyai or puyang and dictating to the peasants.
It was a terrible thing for the Thai elite when one person one vote came in to being and upset the balance of power in Thailand. The peasants should remain peasants and remember their place in society and the education department has done all in its power to keep it that way. When over 80% of the teachers can't even pass their own core subject exams they teach the students, something is wrong. And that's just Maths, science, Thai and English. We won't go into all the other subjects like morals, etc etc etc.
Anyway, that's Thailand for better or worse. It's run by tired old men with little idea about what happens outside its borders and they don't want to know, and they certainly don't want the peasants to know. I call it the Dark Ages, but I still like the place. I like the people, I like the farangs who are trying to improve the poor peoples lot in life, the only thing missing is accountability for ones actions which is why the Thai elite can kill with impunity like the Red Bull heir and then just leave the country. http://www.newyorker.com/business/curre ... n-thailand but none of that matters to the Thai elite.
If you're coming here or are already here you just have to know the rules and not be a pesky farang.
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Re: Droughts

Postby Roger Ramjet » Wed Jul 15, 2015 8:26 am

schuimpge wrote:As for the BMA fire-trucks, organized/initiated by Samak and the then interior minister Balakula.

You've been listening to the wrong people again. http://www.bangkokpost.com/lite/topstor ... ft-scandal
Apirak was the Bangkok Governor and he got off when he should have been the one jailed.
I really do like the site you posted about the floods. I have a better one. viewtopic.php?f=25&t=2979 that's without all the photos but references everything. Here's the one with all the photos, you might notice that it's my house that was in the center of it all. viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1864&start=1020 which is why I know so much about it because I made it my duty to know about it.
I would comment about the site you posted and the photos and explanation, but it would be pointless, because to do so would involve posting many many sites, some of which have been banned, but my first post about the floods should just about cover it.
It's a real bastard being caught in the middle of it and then watching the Mayor of Bang Bua Thong whose house was high and dry apply for the flood subsidy (not to exceed 10,000 baht) and then find she was given 800,000 baht, which she was made to give back because the locals surrounded her house. And not one local in my soi received one baht, neither did the rest of the community, it was claimed the money was used moving the stupid sand bags that failed miserably and repairing the roads that are still waiting to be fixed.
And all that trash talk about the locals opening the flood gates is just that. The gates were in such bad shape they couldn't move them, and the ones they could were all locked and guarded by none other than the Army who were supposed to be working for the people, but weren't.
And the BMA does control the flood gates in the province I live in, even though it has nothing to do with them, but I covered that in the first site on this forum that I posted.
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Re: Droughts

Postby schuimpge » Wed Jul 15, 2015 8:42 am

Roger Ramjet wrote:
schuimpge wrote:As for the BMA fire-trucks, organized/initiated by Samak and the then interior minister Balakula.

You've been listening to the wrong people again. http://www.bangkokpost.com/lite/topstor ... ft-scandal
Apirak was the Bangkok Governor and he got off when he should have been the one jailed.


I like that article, especially the last part (copied below).

The late former prime minister Samak Sundaravej signed off on the deal on Aug 27, 2004, the last day of his tenure as Bangkok governor. Mr Apirak, who succeeded him, signed the letter of credit.

:mrgreen: to me, Apirak made a mistake by signing of on malfeasance of Samak and his government friends..but he was shoved a done deal under his nose.
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Re: Droughts

Postby schuimpge » Wed Jul 15, 2015 8:45 am

And yes, I was also surrounded by water, have seen and gone through the same problems. Saw my factory submerged in 2 meters of water and have through all that time made sure all my staff where well taken care of including extra money for living cost etc. Most of them are still working for me..
We lived through 6 weeks of floods, kitchen flooded raised living room dry.
Village mostly empty but remaining people all supported each other. North of you, just above Bangkadi and next to the BMA water supply channel which those idiot government people would call 'all safe don't worry' when in fact there was no canal anymore, only a huge lake spanning from Rangsit to Bangkadi..

So there's no need calling me out on the flooding experience, mine is as good as yours..
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Re: Droughts

Postby Roger Ramjet » Wed Jul 15, 2015 9:03 am

schuimpge wrote:There simply is no right or wrong in this. It's a personal choice if you like it or not and that's it. My personal opinion is that there are plenty of positive examples like beach clean-up, Forrest-encroachment that are seriously being tackled, so I'm still positive on the current government.
Corruption is still rife but I see a lot cases being brought to light recently.

Now I do agree with the photos about the Australian Navy pushing back boats and it's a disgrace. It's something the Australian Navy were ordered to do by the politicians in power. That's what a democracy is about and the Australian people do not forget these things and at the next election they will either vote them out or vote them in, but that's up to the Australian people. Politicians are regarded at the best as a necessary evil in Australia and 90% of the people hate them all, no matter their party.
As far as corruption being bought to light, it might have been, but it's selected cases only. I want to see all those resorts in national parks being pulled down, instead all you see is the headlines about the case and then it's forgotten and things go back to normal for Thailand. If you'd care to Google you'll find the latest offender (bonanza) is still taking booking for its hotel and golf course. Why it was ever allowed to be built in the first place is beyond me. http://englishnews.thaipbs.or.th/encroa ... t%E2%80%8F http://englishnews.thaipbs.or.th/300-re ... ional-park http://www.hotelthailand.com/korat/thebonanza/
Anyway that's enough, I'm destroying a thread I set up to warn people about what could become a serious problem in August and is a serious problem in places now.
You can't have five fiefdoms controlling what one authority should control and you can't have unqualified people running it. I noticed they never mentioned the qualifications of the people in the photos. If you'd care to check none of them have a degree in water management.
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Re: Droughts

Postby Roger Ramjet » Wed Jul 15, 2015 9:11 am

schuimpge wrote:And yes, I was also surrounded by water, have seen and gone through the same problems. Saw my factory submerged in 2 meters of water and have through all that time made sure all my staff where well taken care of including extra money for living cost etc. Most of them are still working for me..
We lived through 6 weeks of floods, kitchen flooded raised living room dry.
Village mostly empty but remaining people all supported each other. North of you, just above Bangkadi and next to the BMA water supply channel which those idiot government people would call 'all safe don't worry' when in fact there was no canal anymore, only a huge lake spanning from Rangsit to Bangkadi..

So there's no need calling me out on the flooding experience, mine is as good as yours..

Then you should be as vocal as me about the lack of water management in this country. Nothing changes though, it's as if things just never happened. And now the BMA become "idiot government people", strange when you just tried to defend them....and it was the BMA and they do control everything in the outer suburbs when that should be controlled locally.
If they'd opened all the gates Bangkok would have been under water for just three days, instead they kept the outer suburbs under water for three months. That's what I call the power of the Thai elite.
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Re: Droughts

Postby schuimpge » Wed Jul 15, 2015 9:40 am

I was referring to Plodprasop declaring water was safe...

But coming back to the drought, not too afraid of it, slightly worried yes.
Worst case I start drilling a well at my house, can do that myself at very little cost and convinced that 10 to 15 meters gives me good water. Need to test it of course.

As for buying the cheap Chinese pumps vs Japanese, I guess buying the Japanese would have ended in another court case with the pumps rusting away unused in a warehouse next to those overpriced fire-trucks... :lol: :lol:
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Re: Droughts

Postby Roger Ramjet » Wed Jul 15, 2015 10:14 am

schuimpge wrote:As for buying the cheap Chinese pumps vs Japanese, I guess buying the Japanese would have ended in another court case

Actually the Mitsubishi pumps were in the contract, when they came to instal them they found smaller Chinese ones supplied by the BMA, which is why they were bitching because they had to totally redesign the pump housing. And of course on the test run, one pump wouldn't work and the rest failed to pump enough water per hour.
It's a little like the Sunlong buses that they changed the specs on so many times so that Sunlong won the contract over Mercedes, Volvo and Mitsubishi. Now they have a fleet of 2,600 and 70% are off the road with about 40% being terminal..... and yet again they have just ordered Sunlong to replace the previous Mitsubishi and Mercedes that have been in service for years and years and are still running.
Of course they'll sell them to the private operators now and they'll still be running when the new batch of Sunlong are on the rubbish heap. I wonder who will make all the money this time, because when they come to sell them there won't be many to sell and I don't even think the private operators will be stupid enough to buy them.
The Thai sink hole of corruption is like the Greek banks, a never ending story.
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Re: Droughts

Postby schuimpge » Wed Jul 15, 2015 12:28 pm

Roger Ramjet wrote:
schuimpge wrote:As for buying the cheap Chinese pumps vs Japanese, I guess buying the Japanese would have ended in another court case

Actually the Mitsubishi pumps were in the contract, when they came to instal them they found smaller Chinese ones supplied by the BMA, which is why they were bitching because they had to totally redesign the pump housing. And of course on the test run, one pump wouldn't work and the rest failed to pump enough water per hour.
It's a little like the Sunlong buses that they changed the specs on so many times so that Sunlong won the contract over Mercedes, Volvo and Mitsubishi. Now they have a fleet of 2,600 and 70% are off the road with about 40% being terminal..... and yet again they have just ordered Sunlong to replace the previous Mitsubishi and Mercedes that have been in service for years and years and are still running.
Of course they'll sell them to the private operators now and they'll still be running when the new batch of Sunlong are on the rubbish heap. I wonder who will make all the money this time, because when they come to sell them there won't be many to sell and I don't even think the private operators will be stupid enough to buy them.
The Thai sink hole of corruption is like the Greek banks, a never ending story.


Holland no better. They designed a new tunnel for high speed trains only to find out that the aerodynamics where wrong and trains now slow down to 80 kph to prevent people complain about ear pain..wasted millions on it
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Re: Droughts

Postby schuimpge » Wed Jul 15, 2015 8:34 pm

"The gates were in such bad shape they couldn't move them, and the ones they could were all locked and guarded by none other than the Army who were supposed to be working for the people, but weren't."

As far as I know they followed orders from their bosses, which you rightfully state numerous times here and elsewhere: is the elected government.. So what do you support now? Some rogue crowd doing what suits them best? Or the elected government deploying the military with instructions?
Last edited by schuimpge on Wed Jul 15, 2015 8:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Droughts

Postby schuimpge » Wed Jul 15, 2015 8:37 pm

Coming back to the drought, it rained plenty here in Pathum tonight, doesn't help directly on water supply but sure helps the farmers, which means less siphoning of water from tap supply
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Re: Droughts

Postby schuimpge » Wed Jul 15, 2015 9:00 pm

And as far as I know, the military did a commendable job helping and transporting people, versus scum of the worst version charging 100 baht for 50 meters in Rangsit..
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Re: Droughts

Postby Roger Ramjet » Wed Jul 15, 2015 9:42 pm

schuimpge wrote:As far as I know they followed orders from their bosses, which you rightfully state numerous times here and elsewhere: is the elected government.. So what do you support now? Some rogue crowd doing what suits them best? Or the elected government deploying the military with instructions?

I'm sorry, but I don't live in Bangkok and my wife doesn't vote for the Mayor (Governor) there. It would be like the Mayor of a city down the highway miles away in another city trying to tell you what to do when he was in your city. I don't know the names of your cities, but it would be like the Mayor of Sydney telling the Mayor of Liverpool or Campbelltown in NSW what to do. They would tell him to get stuffed and have the police remove him or arrest him, why would you involve the Army at all?
As it was a National Disaster the Army should have been issuing orders through the government, not some tin pot Mayor giving them orders. You have a very distorted view of the use of military forces and what their role is in a national emergency. And if you asked the Thai army what their mission was they would stare at you blankly and say "Shoot Thai civilians"? The only soldiers I saw during the flood were outside Major Ciniplex Pak Kret and when we asked them which truck was going where they didn't know. In the end the local mayor's crew took us to the boats.
And to be honest after three months underwater with nothing happening I would have led the people to open the gates in my province, which has or should have, nothing to do with the Bangkok Metropolitan Administration or its bloody Mayor.
schuimpge wrote:Coming back to the drought, it rained plenty here in Pathum tonight, doesn't help directly on water supply but sure helps the farmers, which means less siphoning of water from tap supply

It also rained heavily here. You must have some very rich farmers who can afford to use tap water to irrigate their crops. And it does help if you'd read the blogs I posted as it keeps the salinity at bay.
As far as your "scum" charging 100 baht for 50 metres in Rangsit, where were your military mates who did such a wonderful job. There were none out our way doing anything, it was the "scum" doing all the work that saved Pak Kret and I gave the "scum" at my house 10,000 baht for staying and looking after it during the floods. Those "scum" as you refer to them are just normal people trying to survive. I happen to like the "scum" of this world, I think they are decent hard working people who have families to look after.
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Re: Droughts

Postby textalk » Thu Jul 16, 2015 6:02 am

I met and married a very sincere Thai lady (we are the same age) who has as about as much in Thailand as I have in Texas. We share our time here and there but I don’t seem to learn a lot about politics while in Thailand, only the few expats I meet there have anything to say regarding that issue.

I have been making annual trips for the past 6 years and it seems the rains come and go pretty much on schedule with periods of drought and floods which leads one to believe Thais knows how to deal with both extremes. The picture you are painting is one of disbelief that Thai officials are more concerned about their own stature by spinning/twisting facts over the benefits of any far-reaching water control policy.

I have learned quite a lot from you guys living in country. I just can’t see myself pulling up stakes here and living full time there.
Thanks for sharing your insight.
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Re: Droughts

Postby schuimpge » Thu Jul 16, 2015 6:27 am

RR, you are trying to paint a picture where all problems came from BMA governor. A bit simplistic at the very least.
Management (if you can call it that) was handled by a national crisis team which was consisting of more than only BMA. Military was deployed by, and issued orders by, that team of which Yingluck was the PIC and of which the Major was a member.

We had regular Army truck service from future park to Pathumthani that was totally free versus non-local people with boats charging an arm and a leg for just getting 100 meter over water.
There where plenty of reports on these 'services' like strewing broken bottles in the water and other means to ensure people had to use their service..

There where many local people indeed who I highly regard for keeping with difficult conditions and I have since learned that many Thais adopt very easily to very difficult circumstances. In no way would I call these local people scum as you are trying to imply.

Lastly, regarding the rain yesterday, you are either very simplistic in trying to twist my words or simply don't understand but let me explain it for you again: water in canals feeds the water-production plants. Around these canals, farmers have their land. That land needs water so they use pumps to take it out of those canals and irrigate their land. If the supply is not enough, then either or both the farmer or the water production plant face a shortage.
So with yesterday's rain, farmers don't need to pump hence the water-plant will get more water..
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