Droughts

Floods, droughts, tsunami's and other natural disasters affecting coolthaihouse.members.

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Droughts

Postby Roger Ramjet » Thu Jul 09, 2015 6:04 am

In the coming months people living outside of Bangkok may be facing drought on an unprecidented scale caused by mismanagement, El Nino and the lack of rain in those areas.
It might be wise for people in areas that are affected by water shortage to think about extra sources of water. Already the normal water table has dropped, which may cause problems with wells.
As usual various Thai solutions to the problem have been put into action. Ceremonies to water gods and other superstitious nonsense have been held by leading lights of various communities, including chiefs of departments.... with no effect. And of course the Irrigation Department has had the full quota of rainmaking planes seeding clouds for months with absolutely no results.
Full story here: http://www.bangkokpost.com/opinion/opin ... ily-is-key
The two real experts, Dr. Seri and Dr. Smith have been bashing their heads against a brick wall during and since the last flood. They were placed in charge of the flood mitigation plan proposed by the previous government and wrote their findings in great detail about flood mitigation and water retention. Dr Seri's department at the university drew up the plans needed for future floods and water conservation and the cost.
Those plans were never implimented as a judge deemed that in his opinion it was too much money to be spent. The current government has either forgotten about the plan or has other plans they prefer.
Meanwhile, unless rains arrive from China or from monsoons in the South China Sea that come across Viet Nam and Laos, farmers in the north will have no water for their rice crops this year. The problem lies with too many departments all laying claim to the water in the dams. Egat, Irrigation Dept, BMA and other obscure departments with vested interests. The Metrological Department warned 6 months ago that El Nino was in effect, but was ignored and the dams drained.
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Re: Droughts

Postby Roger Ramjet » Sun Jul 12, 2015 4:31 pm

And so it has started. It's time to buy in a stock of drinking water, what they have left won't last long. http://www.bangkokpost.com/news/general ... thum-thani
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Re: Droughts

Postby Roger Ramjet » Mon Jul 13, 2015 9:41 pm

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Re: Droughts

Postby pipoz » Mon Jul 13, 2015 11:51 pm

Its still pretty wet up Udon Thani way, but I realize this could change quickly

Will check the local dam level nearby that feeds the mains water to the house, this week

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Re: Droughts

Postby Roger Ramjet » Tue Jul 14, 2015 5:58 am

pipoz wrote:Will check the local dam level nearby that feeds the mains water to the house, this week

Maybe it's just me being overcautious, but having lived through the lies of the very same Bangkok Governor about "just a little flooding" which lasted 3 months, I'm wary.
I had a look at our klong and it was hard to see how much water was in it through all the weeds and rubbish.....which the BMA have total control over and was supposed to be dredged and cleaned out 2 years ago. And then right after the first article the BMA made another statement about why some people had little water. As usual it was an excuse about maintenance they'd forgotten to tell people about, and it was for two days hence......so why were people complaining on Sunday and yesterday?
http://www.bangkokpost.com/news/general ... -districts
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Re: Droughts

Postby Roger Ramjet » Tue Jul 14, 2015 6:30 am

And from another somewhat unreliable source: http://www.nationmultimedia.com/nationa ... 64392.html
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Re: Droughts

Postby Roger Ramjet » Tue Jul 14, 2015 8:22 am

Another more sobering report, especially as we're half way through July. http://www.bangkokpost.com/news/general ... ter-supply
I seem to recall most of the same players telling us not to worry too much just before we went under water for 3 months.
Now there was a report in one of the "papers" that the dictator has increased the penalty for corruption to include the death sentence. Wouldn't it be nice if they did the same for incompetent public servants who make the same stupid mistakes over and over again; Instead they make them inactive at the least and promote them at the best. The royal irrigation department happens to top that list, along with EGAT who will demand water for its hydro plants and the BMA so that Bangkok elite don't suffer. Stuff the farmers trying to scratch a living up country.
What they haven't addressed, but the two doctors Seri and Smith have is the fact that the water treatment works is way to close too the sea and as the Chao Phra is tidal, we could be drinking salty water shortly.
Now you would think that countries like Singapore would have a problem with drinking water being surrounded by sea: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_sup ... _Singapore
Singapore not only has desalination plants, but also recycles grey water. Water from taps in Singapore is regarded as totally safe to drink and exceeds the WHO level for potable water.
I won't say, you would think, that Thailand has cottoned onto this unlimited source of water, because they haven't and all those study tours by "the authorities" have been wasted. A judge from the constitutinal court must have ruled it would cost too much.
I recall my daughter went to Singapore on a study trip back in form 3 or 4 and the first place they visited was the desalination plants and grey water recycling plants. It's a pity some of the junta haven't done the same. Both the royal irrigation department and the BMA have a regular trip there for "study" purposes, but it doesn't seem to have sunk in yet..... or the lure of the casino was too great.
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Re: Droughts

Postby schuimpge » Tue Jul 14, 2015 7:11 pm

RR, you are getting some things wrong.. Most water in SG comes from Malaysia. They started desalination only recently to get less dependent. Expensive undertaking and sure not cost effective here.
Apart from that, grey water in SG is controlled strictly but I dare you trying the same here in Thailand. This country is simply not up to that level yet, the risks for health and safety and the cost would far outweigh the benefits.

For the inlet of water for Bangkok, don't know where you think it is, but it's about 40 kilometers from the coast, close to where Navanakorn Industrial estate is located. That's quite a distance and not anywhere unreasonable for normal circumstances. You seem to be trying to blame everything on incompetent governments but there are in fact a lot of very hard working and Knowledgeable people planning and building things here in Thailand.
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Re: Droughts

Postby schuimpge » Tue Jul 14, 2015 7:16 pm

Don't know if you ever visited the waste water treatment close to ChaTuChak market, but you'd be amazed that a 5 story building that looks like residential, is actually full of stacked water basins treating all grey water from the area. It's a very impressive system that's run by very knowledgable people
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Re: Droughts

Postby schuimpge » Tue Jul 14, 2015 7:29 pm

And don't forget that shortage now is caused by idiot politicians 4 years ago who have thankfully been kicked out now and will hopefully be sentenced under the new law with proper punishments.
Those people running systems for utilities get scolded by you where in fact they are tied hand and feet by idiots at the top
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Re: Droughts

Postby Roger Ramjet » Tue Jul 14, 2015 9:43 pm

schuimpge wrote:Don't know if you ever visited the waste water treatment close to ChaTuChak market, but you'd be amazed that a 5 story building that looks like residential, is actually full of stacked water basins treating all grey water from the area. It's a very impressive system that's run by very knowledgable people

Let's start with this one first. I used to train down at Chatuchuk Park every night with my wife after she finished work and walked past the then being constructed underground tunnel. I actually spoke to the engineers there and know why they were so pissed off..... the substitution of Mitsubishi pumps for Chinese pumps, which is the reason that part of Viphavadi Rangsit is always the first underwater even if the rain is light. I also watched them construct the various klongs around Soi 36 where I used to live and to be honest I've seen better construction usining leggo blocks. And don't forgeet Soi 36 is at the back of Chatuchuk District Office and the soi was always under water even though most of the residents where either serving or retired Army or Police Generals. The reason I move was because they built a five story leaning block of flats right next to my house there and all the concrete fell off the bottom of the columns within the first week, so they patched it with a sand cement mix.... after the rust set in.
You talk as if the government of the time was in control of all that, but they weren't, all of that was controlled by the BMA. At the time the Governor of the BMA had just spent billions on illegal fire engines that still sit at the dock waiting for import duty to be paid and the ex BMA governor is still a free man waiting for the statute of limitations to run out.
schuimpge wrote:Apart from that, grey water in SG is controlled strictly but I dare you trying the same here in Thailand. This country is simply not up to that level yet, the risks for health and safety and the cost would far outweigh the benefits.

Which was exactly my point and who would you trust to control it? I certainly would touch it with a barge pole. We even boiled our water to clean our teeth at Soi 36 it was so bad.
schuimpge wrote:For the inlet of water for Bangkok, don't know where you think it is, but it's about 40 kilometers from the coast, close to where Navanakorn Industrial estate is located. That's quite a distance and not anywhere unreasonable for normal circumstances. You seem to be trying to blame everything on incompetent governments but there are in fact a lot of very hard working and Knowledgeable people planning and building things here in Thailand.

You might like to read this: http://www.bangkokpost.com/learning/lea ... ater-ahead
There are two qualified hard working experts here in Thailand Dr Smith and Dr Seri. Dr Smith retired in disgust, Dr Seri still struggles on at a university.
schuimpge wrote:And don't forget that shortage now is caused by idiot politicians 4 years ago who have thankfully been kicked out now and will hopefully be sentenced under the new law with proper punishments.
Those people running systems for utilities get scolded by you where in fact they are tied hand and feet by idiots at the top

And again you are wrong. When the huge flood came the royal irrigation department had been told months earlier by the then Science and Technology Minister to start releasing water. He also told the BMA to clean out all the klongs that had been left overgrown for months even though they had the budget to clean them. And of course the other culprit in the "save the water in the dams" fiaco was EGAT who wanted it for hydro power. And of course not one of them paid the slightest notice to the Minister because one has the royal infront of its name and answers to no one, the BMA is run by MR Sukumbhand (the MR stands for Minor Royal) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sukhumbhand_Paribatra who happens to be a member of the democrat party and also answers to no one, especially being told to clean out his klongs..... and even to this date, with all the funds allocated, there are over 40% of the klongs clogged up and not running, which is the reason that Bangkok flooded and ground to a halt less than two months ago after the first heavy rains. And of the Chinese motors (there's 8) six are not running and four of those can't be fixed, and it all got blamed on people dumping rubbish in the klongs even though 40% haven't been cleaned out and the 60% that had weren't drained because the Bangkok Governor didn't give the order because he was on a junket in Holland and nobody would make a decision until he flew back.
If you like I can look up all the references? http://www.bangkokpost.com/news/general ... kok-floods http://www.nationmultimedia.com/life/Ba ... 61872.html and there's more even scathing ones if you just feed in Bangkok floods into Google.
schuimpge wrote:And don't forget that shortage now is caused by idiot politicians 4 years ago who have thankfully been kicked out now and will hopefully be sentenced under the new law with proper punishments.
Those people running systems for utilities get scolded by you where in fact they are tied hand and feet by idiots at the top

Let me be very straight forward about this, as I have been many times before, especially during the flood when the "idiot politicians" were in power, they had next to no control over anything.
The army runs Thailand and always has. If the army doesn't give the nod nothing gets done. The army in Thailand is not here to protect the people and its borders, it's here to protect national security which is ................... fill in the blank and to make itself rich. Look at the list of Generals who are running the country, all of them are US Dollar billionaires or millionaires at the least. I posted the list before, I'm not doing it again.
Finally, I have no idea which your country of origin is, but mine is Australia and if some tin pot general (I think we only have one) declared a coup there he would be arrested on the spot by the Military Police and tried for high treason. I served in the Australian Army and was proud to do so, all my orders came from elected politicians that I may not have liked, may have disagreed with, may have hated, may have known they were crooks, but I worked for the Australian people (the taxpayer) who elected the scum/whatever, which meant if an order came down from the elected government I obeyed it.
I've never heard of an army shooting it's own unarmed citizens because they were protesting. I've never heard of the army being called out for such a thing. I've never heard of the army taking things into their own hands and I've never heard of the army not going to the aid of the people.
I have heard of soldiers being tried for their actions and if found guilty by a court of law gaoled, none of which happens in Thailand unless the orders come from one person.
I have never heard of the army list for promotion going to a retired general for his approval. I have never heard of the same retired general having five serving generals as aides and have never seen an elected government scared of what the army might do if they don't like the outcome of a decision they make.
schuimpge wrote:and will hopefully be sentenced under the new law with proper punishments.

Now that's a classic, haven't you heard the dictator say that all court cases will be heard by Court's Martial and the dictator decides the punishment.
Sorry I come from a democratic country and what you say doesn't wash with me. Perhaps you could tell me about the 3 Chinese submarines they are now buying for 63 billion because otherwise it would just be used on corruption, not my words, came from the dictator and as all his generals are in power which ones is he scared will take the money?
2,800 Generals and more to come and their army is made up of national servicemen whose parents couldn't afford the 30,000 baht to get them out of it. I used to know how many coups there were in Thailand, it was 7/11, seven failed ones and eleven successful ones, now it's seven -twelve unless of course there's a counter coup, then it will be eight - twelve and each time nothing gets done about the education system, health and wellbeing of the people and infrastructure. And of course I won't mention the red flag hanging over Thai aircraft or the fishing industry.
The shortage didn't come from the government in power four years ago, that's like blaming Thaksin for all the ills and woes of Thailand. The shortage came from the three agencies I mentioned because not one of them has an expert in charge, they're all greedy for more power and they use the old boy system for promotions, not I have the knowledge, even though I'm only in my 30s or 40s but I have 3 or 4 degrees in water management I earnt in America/Canada/Australia/Holland/Japan/ wherever, and I take my orders from nobody but the Minister in charge who has been elected and if he makes the wrong decision after I have briefed him, then he answers to the people.
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Re: Droughts

Postby textalk » Wed Jul 15, 2015 5:52 am

Thanks for the explanation and clarification RR.

There is nothing like being on site and having the knowledge to discern fact from fiction. You would think something as basic as the water supply would be under control of competent people by now.

Looks like I need to keep one foot rooted in the homeland because those running Thailand really scare me.
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Re: Droughts

Postby schuimpge » Wed Jul 15, 2015 6:55 am

RR, your comments are mostly political, ignoring most of the points I made.
http://www.bangkokpost.com/news/general ... n-yingluck

Severity of the flooding was massively increased by the political decision to hold back water from already full dams to allow farmers to harvest their crop downstream.
Subsequently, dams had no capacity left to regulate flow anymore and with more storms following, they could only start releasing water non-stop. That's a political decision, nothing to do with proper management. Who was in charge of that? The Yingluck Government.

The next decision after the floods was to lower the amount of water in the dams to prevent this. Again the same government. They then added to the problem with their rediculous rice-scheme (that cost Tax-payers dozens of submarines and then some btw..)..resulting in much higher water-use than before.

Sorry, all your bashing of military this and coups that and BMA here and MR S there doesn't really fly with me.

And using Singapore as the Enlightened Example is just making me laugh, about the best working one-party, one leader 'democracy' in the world. You ever wondered how rich the PM and his family there are? And where that money comes from?
Do some googling on Temasek Holdings..you might be surprised...
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Re: Droughts

Postby schuimpge » Wed Jul 15, 2015 7:27 am

I'm from the Netherlands by the way. Left it 17 years ago for Singapore and have seen and heard the many many ways to 'regulate' elections 'properly'. There's never been fair elections there as opposition was very effectively blocked by changing vote districts, not allowing political gatherings, defamation law-suits, etc.
Only recently, with the information being spread through media, Internet, etc, with the rise of educated people, they where unable to stop that. And what happened? They nearly lost the last election.

I certainly don't agree with military coups, but currently find it a lesser evil that still has benefit of the doubt for me. At the same time..Plenty of reasons not to like or be proud of democracy and the military in Australia...just read the links below:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/1055539 ... nesia.html
https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2015/0 ... u-j03.html

There simply is no right or wrong in this. It's a personal choice if you like it or not and that's it. My personal opinion is that there are plenty of positive examples like beach clean-up, Forrest-encroachment that are seriously being tackled, so I'm still positive on the current government.
Corruption is still rife but I see a lot cases being brought to light recently.
PM not being good with Media, that's a military discipline problem, they never go well with Media anywhere in the world.
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Re: Droughts

Postby schuimpge » Wed Jul 15, 2015 7:44 am

As for the BMA fire-trucks, organized/initiated by Samak and the then interior minister Balakula.
For the floods, nice couple of slides attached..

http://apcs.city.fukuoka.lg.jp/download ... k_10me.pdf
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