Flood Related from Building in Nontharburi/Pak Kret

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Re: Flood Related from Building in Nontharburi/Pak Kret

Postby otis-a » Sat Oct 29, 2011 3:34 pm

rr
your libertine website asiapacific.anu.edu.au/newmandala/
is a hack job

it's nothing but pure libertine smut.
Starts with some real goodies
'reform les majeste' moves on to 'free political prisioners in thailand' then delves off into political aspects of thailand flood and somehow tries to make it sound factual by quoting some hack engineer who can't even get his own house in order. The rest is smut no hard facts just opinion.
Gimme some hards facts like what gordie discussed.
U c rr when nonprofessionals delve into deep waters of factual engineering is easy to get swallowed up by smut. At which point they start spewing out stuff like;
''Michael Montesano has written a very interesting article for the Jarkarta Globe about some of the ideological dimensions of Thailand’s floods. Here are some extracts: Thais unreconciled to the victory of Yingluck’s''
Answer me this:
sorry but the article is prefaced as ''idelogical'' not factual. We as engineers prefer to deal with facts, details, numbers, and solid principles that tend to make peoples like ur self get very uncomfortable- which results in smut.
what is storage capacity of 2 major dams up river from the flood zone?
where to park dog when in town? A barking lot... :-)))
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Re: Flood Related from Building in Nontharburi/Pak Kret

Postby otis-a » Sat Oct 29, 2011 3:51 pm

rr
u are totally correct about the politicising of the thai crisis. It is uncalled for & very untimely. The pm is doing her honest best as are all involved. Now is not a time for name calling but for standing togather to get over this mess. I was so moved to see ordinary folk out sandbagging.
I hope some true factual analysis follows up this mess for the betterment of all concerned.
From an engineering view, events like this offer a rare chance to get a fresh perspective. One fella already said the thai hydo model was for power and irrigation.
So now is good background to delve into flood control details- publicate the details and explain what level of protection is sought after and what the cost & solution time frame to the public will be to move forward.
where to park dog when in town? A barking lot... :-)))
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Re: Flood Related from Building in Nontharburi/Pak Kret

Postby geordie » Sat Oct 29, 2011 4:58 pm

The bottom line is when you look beyond all the smoke = this was going to happen the irrigation system was put to what they saw as good use to delay and redirect rightly or wrongly as Rodger states a dysfunctional family all across Thailand all trying their level best!!
to make it someone else,s problem The thing thats being forgotten is the weather and no political party or goverment body can control that
The question is what now was this a one off with little chance of it happening again for fifty years or is this the start of a trend
The what happens now question continues with what if it does breach BKK who will get the rap for that surely high tides are common every month surely some one should have decided three days ago to cut the water into the river to allow for the high tide but is it simply a case of they did and its not enough !! so what is the point of aiming the blame at anyone

Its a strange situation to compare it to but Max has built his own defences ! do you think he feels guilty about the neighbours getting a bit more water ? Replace max with a lot of little self promoting minions who want to make themselves important and keep damage in their area to a minimum and you will find ""leaks""apearing in the sluice gates dykes canals allover
thailand and all contributing to the demise of BKK if and when it happens my worry is that when it doe,s how the hell are the intending to get it out having sandbagged the place to death as thats going to work both ways!
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Re: Flood Related from Building in Nontharburi/Pak Kret

Postby tomquic » Sat Oct 29, 2011 8:21 pm

Roger ,

Have been reading and enjoying this thread for many months now .... on your building progress ... and I feel compelled to post and say -- " I haven't read any clearer, concise or more accurate summary of the non-sense regards the flooding we are all suffering here at the moment". and that is on any forum I follow. I rarely post on any local forums as there are so many blokes who can run the world from their arm chair .. they obviously don't need my comments.

As a fellow Australian , I think I understand how you also feel ... it is just so foreign to how we do things ... such a shame the army cannot be trusted to work like ours.

I live further downstream in Klongsan .. approx 15m from the Chaopraya river - but 20m up ... so flooding is not really an issue for me personally. However I am totally sick of all the things you mentioned and all the lies and slime that so many here are throwing at the PM ... I think she is doing a good job considering all the clowns that are around her and the 'foul play' going on in the wings .....

So many Thais here being so un-Thai at the moment ... and that is sad ... shows how selfish and fragmented so many here are in BKK ... and thats not fair as there are so many good people here too.

Keep smiling .... the river overflowed here today ... and into our condo ( downstairs) .. all water supplies off here now -- only on for abt 4 hrs / day ... lucky we had already prepared 800+ litres for drinking and washing in advance ... just waiting to lose the power now ...

But did discover a family of wild pigs live next door ... amazing in the centre of the city ...

Thanks again for your comments .... makes me feel as if I'm not mad ..
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Re: Flood Related from Building in Nontharburi/Pak Kret

Postby Roger Ramjet » Sat Oct 29, 2011 8:36 pm

Geordie,
I agree with a lot you say, but also ask yourself this: Why are people travelling for half an hour in an army bus/truck to buy food when there are literally thousands of bags of food waiting to be given away? How do I know? I went with my wife, daughter and hundreds more volunteers and spent some time packing the bags with food at the local high school, yet because we are not regarded as part of Bangkok those people with no food will have to wait for the so-called Thai army to get around to giving it away, let alone picking it up.
And of course we are now facing serious water rationing because the one place that should have been protected, the fresh water canal has been breached and the 10,000 soldiers who were supposed to look after it at all costs are off looking after temples and other structures I can't name.

Otis,
Just one thing I do get annoyed about is people saying "we engineers" as though you are talking for all engineers, and then you go off into a great dissertation about what you think. I too am an engineer and I damned if I think like you. But then perhaps it's the fact that I was involved in so many army callouts to help Australian people in times of crisis that makes me think differently.
And all the Thai people are not doing their best to resolve the issue, the army commander couldn't care less, the BG is worried he might have overplayed his hand with politics and might not get re-elected and the others in positions of power are either trying to cover their arses or trying to promote themselves.
I am disgusted watching normal people having to beg and wah for food, that I and many others donated, just because some piece of garbage in power, political or otherwise, wants to get on TV so he/she distributes the food in his/her truck that belongs to the public anyway.
And you're totally wrong about engineering view-points; a crisis like this doesn't offer anything other that grief and misery.
And also, if you had really read the website I posted you would have seen all that data which the two professors have collected and shared for years and also the comparisons to the two previous floods, but then I wouldn't expect you to read a "hack" job, let alone what the site is about and that they want vigorous debate about all topics.
I as an engineer can read data, I can also relate to both the left and right of an argument, then form my own opinion based on what I know, or have read and have experienced. What I can't relate to is someone being put into jail for any number of years because they thought they had the right to freedom of speech.
You don't make me uncomfortable Otis, I was too long a professional soldier for that, you make me wonder just what universities in America actually teach.
Here's the answer to your question: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bhumibol_Dam
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Re: Flood Related from Building in Nontharburi/Pak Kret

Postby geordie » Sat Oct 29, 2011 9:10 pm

Not sure if RR still has internet or is still above water but i agree with your comments its easy to condemm after some one has done their best ! And at the same time in hindsight more could have been done ""maybe"" The main failings as i see it are the lack of information and the duff information thats being ploughed around
I don,t see for one minuite that a disaster on the scale of what is happening is cause for political bickering and finger pointing The aim now should be to work together as a nation
and prevent a similar ocourence next year and at the same time help for those that need it the farmers who have lost there crops and now will have no means to pay their loans back and no rice to feed their families When i was building the mum in laws house shortly after the rice had been harvested i got a real look at how things work over half the guys working were rice farmers with small plots but each and every one of them had a date to attend the ""tockasaw"" *(guesiing the name and spelling) all with the same purpose to pay back what they had borrowed to get the harvest in the first place i am guessing again that its pretty much the same all over borrowed to plant the rice and payback when they harvest next time around they will have nothing but a bit of dirt

Rodger good to see you are still with us you in the centre of it litteraly are in the position of seeing whats going wrong but the obvious is the political manouvering thats to be expected
The army could never be depended upon for anything because at the top level its just another political party with its own goals
The americans have been on the new claiming to help the releif operation with two helicopters doing surveys ?? what a bloody laugh if thats the best they can do
An example of your disjointed family is why do the thais notstart a co-operative in local area,s several families will each have a buffalo ! each day someone will walk the buffalo !
why the hell don,t they get one person to walk the buffalo and try to find some paying work?
They could head down to where sunpax is for 1000bht a day
The strange thing is now BKK is under threat th ballon has really gone up but at least now the news is out that there is a problem
Your food parcels will end up in chaing mai Hua hin Pattaya all places its not required ! when the sunami hit a truck turned up at the mother in laws village Khaen Khro distributing washing kit toothbrushes jugs mugs blankets all free ? so the people dutifully collected it
you could not get further from water but thats what will happen again
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Re: Flood Related from Building in Nontharburi/Pak Kret

Postby Roger Ramjet » Sat Oct 29, 2011 9:18 pm

tomquic
Thank you for the kind comments. I served in the Australian Army for 21 years, including Malaya, Borneo and Vietnam and have never, ever, once thought any other way than I do. The army is there to serve the people, not the politicians, not anyone else, but the people of Australia through the elected government. And I know all the other diggers thought the same way, even when they bitched about National Service and other things, they still did their service and are still proud of doing it, no matter who was in power.
The Thai army is different, they even shoot their own citizens, which is what I can't get my head around. I'd be in an asylum if I did that.
I think the new PM is doing a great job, because instead of talking, she's actually doing something.
I've been here for a few of the coups and nothing changes: as soon as the rightful government is overthrown the army appoints the so-called elite into all the positions of power and then sits back and does nothing for 12 months, except rewrite the constitution so they can't be jailed for life. And all those public servants who were promoted because they either paid for the position or had the seniority or knew someone, has caused Thailand to sit in the dark ages and stagnate and the Thai academics who do not express the "party line" are charged and jailed or chased overseas. The whole thing is dysfunctional.
The most annoying thing about all of this is not being kept informed. My wife and daughter translate for me but ten minutes later when the English version comes on they contradict everything they have just said... very annoying that... sort of a news for dumb Thais and one for dumb tourists and most of the rest I read is twaddle from people who aren't actually there/here, just the guessers and not good guessers at that.
The good part about being an Aussie is I can relate everything back to Australia and the way we would do things or did things when I was still serving.
The drinking water is a major problem that has just reared its ugly head; the main drinking water canal is just up Chang Wattanna Rd from us and it has been breached and also the gates closed and the soldiers sent to protect it and reinforce it have been called into Bangkok to protect temples and other nonessential things. The army seems to forget the basics of life, water, food and shelter. So far they have struck out on two of the essentials of life and only the Thai people are saving the day and helping each other.
Good luck with protecting the condo... you might find the wild pigs are in someone's pot by the end of this...
I'm pleased there are at least two mad people here.
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Re: Flood Related from Building in Nontharburi/Pak Kret

Postby Tommy » Sat Oct 29, 2011 9:24 pm

@Geordie

geordie wrote:The debate really has to be what can be done to avert this happening again I think malaysia or singapore have a tunnel which runs under a city and is a double deck motorway in the dry season but doubles up as a flood relief tunnel to avoid flooding /


I'm sorry but I really laughed out loud when I read this paragraph in relation to Singapore. The 1st flash flood happened in Nov 2009. As usual, fingers started pointing at everyone. A certain Minister was quoted saying that floods like what happened happened once every 50 years.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010-2011_Singapore_floods

From the above link, we can assume that several centuries must had passed since then :lol: :lol: :lol:

Funniest thing is that all these people are STILL in power :lol: :lol: :lol:

Just google images using "Singapore Floods"
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Re: Flood Related from Building in Nontharburi/Pak Kret

Postby geordie » Sat Oct 29, 2011 10:16 pm

Tommy wrote:I'm sorry but I really laughed out loud when I read this paragraph in relation to Singapore. The 1st flash flood happened in Nov 2009. As usual, fingers started pointing at everyone. "


Come on Tommy you just know i will blame the pills :lol: :lol: :lol: I know somewhere in asia they built a huge flood releif tunnel and during normal times its used as a motorway / highway but its main pupose was for flood releif i think it does have a dedicated river or canal permanently i will try and find it as i thought it was a great solution
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Re: Flood Related from Building in Nontharburi/Pak Kret

Postby Roger Ramjet » Sat Oct 29, 2011 10:20 pm

Geordie,
Try Hong Kong.
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Re: Flood Related from Building in Nontharburi/Pak Kret

Postby geordie » Sat Oct 29, 2011 10:24 pm

Roger Ramjet wrote:Geordie,
Try Hong Kong.

http://www.tunnels.mottmac.com/projects ... pe&id=2047

I know i am losing it a bit :lol: but i did see it kuala lumpur
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Re: Flood Related from Building in Nontharburi/Pak Kret

Postby otis-a » Sun Oct 30, 2011 11:08 am

rr
u r also a qualified engineer? So where may this fact about your qualifications be verified?
Here you may verify my qualifications
https://www.doradls.state.co.us/lic_database_req.php
last name: armstrong, under 'professional engineer'

i would not normally ask such, but as you are coming up short on facts and long on drone dribble, seems on prudent to start verification of the dribble and who is really offering the dribble.
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Re: Flood Related from Building in Nontharburi/Pak Kret

Postby tomquic » Sun Oct 30, 2011 12:43 pm

Otis-a ..

Don't know what to say mate ... Have enjoyed this thread over many months now ... but yr last post seems to be taking it down a nasty slippery slope ....

is this going to turn into a "my knob is bigger than yr knob" type argument ...???

Quite frankly who gives a flying fig .. what pieces of paper individuals have got ??? Means jack shite .... one could then get into arguments as to whose piece of paper is worth more than others pieces of paper ---- from what institution...

Suggest .. one thinks about all the poor people suffering due to this mess ... and concentrate on how people might help them in one form or another ... instead of what appears to be a MAJOR concentration on ones own ego .... suggest a few deep breaths and introspection about whats really important here ... your piece of paper vs someone else's or the suffering of many Thai people through no fault of their own ...??? Hope you are capable of seeing the wood from the trees mate ...
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Re: Flood Related from Building in Nontharburi/Pak Kret

Postby geordie » Sun Oct 30, 2011 3:44 pm

Otis i have to agree with Tomquic you have placed your qualifications up for inspection and yes you and Rodger are disagreeing on points but why not !! You are entitled to an opinion the same as RR the same as me I have been an engineer a long time and would not prove to anyone anything other than i can do what i say
I cannot see the point you can do what you say or not I have worked for years with pratts with far higher qualifications who could not tell you the time of day without first calling a meeting I don,t see you in that category and reading some of your posts its obvious you are not a labourer But that does not make either Rodger or yourself right only your opinion or Rodgers something you said the other day struck me as odd about your build being too cheap ? That one tickled me why worry about it I like your house and so you did not throw away several million wait till you see the shack i will build :lol: :lol: very disapointing but i have a requirement for somewher to relax somewhere to eat somewhere to sleep I am more interested in function and strength over beauty and show but that does not mean i cannot apreciate both
A lot of people in multimillion Bht houses around BKK are currently wishing they had spent more on fill than they had on fittings on the other hand the poor sod living in a basic shack will recover quicker and at less cost a quick hose down and a coat of paint i feel sorry for both
My own place in Rangsit is in flood and some of the neighbours are living in there insead of the bungalows they were in that made me happy it was the wife and her sister gave the place over to them and she thought i might object all our new furniture ? i don,t care a fig if its helping a couple of them through this i am glad to allow it if they want the funiture afterwards and need it they can have that as well (the wife picked it anyway :roll: )This thread was transferred by Dozer because its something topical and with all the bits we are seeing we may be able to get a better picture of what is going on It was split away from RR,s building story where it was lodging because he is in the middle of it on the ground and he can see what is going on he can see the goverment response he can see the army response he can see the aid not getting to where it should so his opinion is a good one your point is its happened before and will again my question is what will they do to prevent it and how will they get the waterand food supplies to those that need it non of our opinions will change anything they are purely speculation its unlikely the Thai goverment are going to change tactics to acomodate anything we say no matter how relevant bloody hell they will not listen to each other so certainly not a farrang (or several) Throwing the gauntlet will acheive nothing but there are times you cannot agree "thats life " we are all different with different opinions thats life its our own choice what we chose to digest what we chose to listen to and what we do about it but take a chill pill for now and lets get back to reality of those millions that are displaced the hundreds that are dead and those that might still die
my comments may be wrong but never deliberately
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Re: Flood Related from Building in Nontharburi/Pak Kret

Postby tomquic » Sun Oct 30, 2011 4:11 pm

Geordie ...

Very well put ... agree with all yr comments ... really doesn't matter what we think .. its what we can do in any small way to help those affected by this tragedy ... not bad for a pom :lol:
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