tsunami Japan

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tsunami Japan

Postby dozer » Mon Mar 14, 2011 3:24 pm

Possible nuclear meltdown saga continues in Japan.

Some good coverage of the quake/tsunami that hit Japan
http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2011/03/12/japan-earthquake-live-blog-death-toll-rises-amid-widespread-destruction/

The underlying quake was 8.9 vs reported figures of 8.8/9.1 for the great tsunami of 2004 (Indian Ocean earthquake which hit Thailand).
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Re: tsunami Japan

Postby MGV12 » Mon Mar 14, 2011 3:50 pm

The two reactors in northern Japan are close to a known fault line ... it was only ever going to be a matter of when not if. The Japanese being the way they are would have been obsessive in building these plants to withstand the very worst imaginable calamity as they saw it ... 8.9 [or even 9.0 as they have uprated it to] is not the worst imaginable:

Here is the top ten in recorded history .... but why would anyone think there couldn't be worse waiting to happen if you build a nuclear reactor bang on the 'Ring OF Fire'?

Pacific_Ring_of_Fire.jpg


1. Valdivia, Chile – 22 May 1960 (magnitude 9.5)
This earthquake killed 1655 people, injured 3000 and displaced two million. It caused US$550 million damage in Chile, while the tsunami that it spawned caused deaths and damage as far away as Hawaii, Japan and the Philippines. Two days after the initial quake, the nearby volcano Puyehue erupted, sending ash and steam up to 6 km into the atmosphere over a period of several weeks.

2. Prince William Sound, Alaska – 28 March 1964 (magnitude 9.2)
Compared to the Chilean earthquake, this earthquake was less damaging: the resulting tsunami took 128 lives and caused overall US$311 million in damage. The earthquake was felt mainly over Alaska, as well as some places in Canada, while the tsunami created by it caused damage as far away as Hawaii. Shaking from the quake itself is reported to have lasted for three minutes.

3. Sumatra, Indonesia – 26 December 2004 (magnitude 9.1)
In terms of damage and loss of life, the scale of the disaster caused by the resulting Boxing Day Tsunami was enormous. In total, 227,900 people were killed or presumed dead, with around 1.7 million displaced over 14 countries in South Asia and East Africa. Several days later on 28 December, a mud volcano began erupting near Baratang, Andamar Islands, which is thought to have been associated with the earthquake.

4. Sendai, Japan – 11 March 2011 (magnitude 9.0)
So far the official death toll stands at 1200 from the combined effect of the powerful earthquake, aftershocks and the tsunami. However, the total is expected to rise, with some estimates of a final toll of over 10,000. Economic impacts are expected to be huge, with the shutting down of nuclear reactors which many industries rely on for power.

5. Kamchatka, Russia – 4 November 1952 (magnitude 9.0)
This earthquake generated a tsunami that caused widespread damage in the Hawaiian Islands. Property damage was estimated at around US$1,000,000. Some reports describe waves of over 9 m high at Kaena Point, Oahu. A farmer on Oahu reported the loss of six cows to the tsunami, but no people were reported killed.

6. Bio-bio, Chile – 27 February 2010 (magnitude 8.8)
This earthquake and subsequent tsunami killed at least 521 people, with 56 missing and 12,000 injured. More than 800,000 people were displaced with a total of 1.8m people affected across Chile, where damage was estimated at US$30 billion. A minor tsunami travelled across the Pacific causing damage to boats as far away as San Diego, California.

7. Off the coast of Ecuador – 31 January 1906 (magnitude 8.8)
This earthquake caused a tsunami that is reported to have killed between 500 and 1,500 in Ecuador and Colombia. The tsunami travelled as far north as San Francisco, on the west coast of the US, and west to Hawaii and Japan. The tsunami took roughly 12 hours to cross the Pacific to Hilo, Hawaii.

8. Rat Islands, Alaska – 2 April 1965 (magnitude 8.7)
The worst of the damage attributed to this earthquake was caused by a tsunami, reported to be about 10 m high on Shemya Island. The wave caused flooding on Amchitka Island, causing US$10,000 in property damage. No deaths or injuries were reported.

9. Sumatra, Indonesia – 28 March 2005 (magnitude 8.6)
This earthquake acted almost as a foreshadowing to the disaster which would occur in the same region on Boxing Day 2004. In this case, 1313 people were killed, with over 400 people injured by the tsunami as far away as Sri Lanka.

10. Assam - Tibet – 15 August 1950 (magnitude 8.6)
This inland earthquake caused widespread damages to buildings as well as large landslides. 780 people were killed in eastern Tibet, with many villages and towns affected across Assam, China, Tibet and India. The total death toll is likely to be higher, as no definitive total was ever estimated. While the earthquake itself is known as the Assam Earthquake, it is believed the epicentre may have been in Tibet.


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/energy ... -fire.html
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Re: tsunami Japan

Postby dozer » Mon Mar 14, 2011 3:57 pm

Not sure if this still holds although it was written today.....

A core meltdown at the Fukushima nuclear plant is unlikely to result in a Chernobyl-like disaster, but its impact will still be significant, say experts.

Despite a second explosion at the site, Japanese authorities are playing down the danger of a core meltdown in one of the reactors.

Most experts are comparing the situation to the 1979 Three Mile Island accident, which resulted in radiation affecting an area 16 kilometres around the reactor.

Professor Aidan Byrne, director of the College of Mathematical and Physical Sciences at the Australian National University in Canberra, says Three Mile Island failed because of lack of cooling water.

"This one's a slightly different scenario," he says, "because they're able to put cooling water onto it, so it might not progress to that scale."

entire article below
http://www.abc.net.au/science/articles/2011/03/14/3163479.htm?site=science&topic=enviro
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Re: tsunami Japan

Postby otis-a » Tue Mar 15, 2011 1:34 pm

interesting factoid for foundation & hazop
seems the structural guys did bang up excellent job but hydraulic e's & mech e's dropped ball n sunami planning: better break wall - perhaps V wall to divert waves & mech e's add water tight fuel, exaust, & air like seen on off road vehicles to ford rivers
really give to the nip building structural e's : just compare japan building damage to place like turkey iran & china- whos' building crumbled with 6 or 7 richters - and this a 9 with only 20k dead- good workmanship & engineering - but dropped ball at important nuc facility- maybe a nuc engi or costs overroad engi concerns- this one definately goes in the ''lessons learnt'' book- face it - nuc here for better or worse -
i predict substiantial numbers of nuc hazops after this mess- but what will public hear? Very little i suspect with good ole beau (aka dont rok z boat) network of most util supervisory commissions
where to park dog when in town? A barking lot... :-)))
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Re: tsunami Japan

Postby MGV12 » Tue Mar 15, 2011 5:57 pm

Some pictures truly paint a thousand words .........

Cruiser on a roof.jpg
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Re: tsunami Japan

Postby geordie » Wed Mar 16, 2011 12:05 am

lets hope that the tide does not come in and float it that would be tragic
my comments may be wrong but never deliberately
If it aint broke, dont fix it
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Re: tsunami Japan

Postby MGV12 » Fri Mar 18, 2011 9:13 pm

If the Germans are concerned that their reactors are up to a safe operating standard what chance have the rest got?

Wall Street Journal:

BERLIN—Seven nuclear reactors in Germany built before 1980 will be shut during a three-month review of nuclear-plant safety and the country's broader energy strategy, Chancellor Angela Merkel said Tuesday.

Mrs. Merkel also said she wanted the Group of 20 leading and emerging nations in France to discuss international nuclear-energy standards at a summit in November, and had asked French President Nicolas Sarkozy to add the discussion to the summit's agenda.

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Re: tsunami Japan

Postby MGV12 » Sun Mar 20, 2011 6:43 pm

MGV12 wrote:The Japanese being the way they are would have been obsessive in building these plants to withstand the very worst imaginable calamity as they saw it


That may be true but they sure don't appear to have looked after the plant afterwards ....

... if you are at all interested in the truth and realities of why they are struggling to avoid a meltdown read this enlightening report.:

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-03-1 ... dents.html

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Re: tsunami Japan

Postby geordie » Sun Mar 20, 2011 10:35 pm

Eye opening but no suprise backs up the conspiracy theory we are told what we want to hear
The goverments are as bad with twisted half truths they dish out and running scared of big
companies in case the become unpopular
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Re: tsunami Japan

Postby Roger Ramjet » Mon Mar 21, 2011 7:20 am

The whole nuclear industry relies soley on tax payer funds because it has never made a profit. For a reactor to last just 30 years before being decommissioned should tell you why. The fact that some of these reactors should have been decommissioned a number of years ago also adds to the misconception that nuclear power is cheap and sustainable, it is neither, it requires massive amounts of water to cool the core. I hope this is the final death knell sounding for nuclear power on land. At least the Japanese built a safety factor into each reactor so that the core will be encased in concrete and steel before it spews massive radiation into the atmosphere .....if/when they have a meltdown.... if/when they make the hard decisions.
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Re: tsunami Japan

Postby MGV12 » Thu Mar 24, 2011 7:10 am

Hard to imagine this happening in any other country ...

Now you see it...: This stretch of the Great Kanto highway was wrecked by deep chasms in the March 11 earthquake - but was repaired in just six days

Road 1.jpg
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Re: tsunami Japan

Postby geordie » Thu Mar 24, 2011 3:04 pm

Well if that were the UK it would have a lot more activity for us to see
A dozen or so trucks with beacons flashing
several hundred road cones
A stream of surveyors/engineers assesing the best fix
Then a decent period to produce method statements and risk assesments
some new signs apologising for the delays
a few miles of bumper to bumper vehicles
It would get fixed eventually though
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Re: tsunami Japan

Postby MGV12 » Thu Mar 24, 2011 3:21 pm

geordie wrote:Well if that were the UK it would have a lot more activity for us to see
A dozen or so trucks with beacons flashing
several hundred road cones
A stream of surveyors/engineers assesing the best fix
Then a decent period to produce method statements and risk assesments
some new signs apologising for the delays
a few miles of bumper to bumper vehicles
It would get fixed eventually though


Absolutely correct geordie ... you forgot to add that at this time it would of course still be in discussion with those in high places ... many questions need to be answered first ... the British public are used to delays so let them wait .... does it needs to be done/should be done/if so by whom/ where is the budget coming from/is it a repair or replacement/ is it the responsibility of central or local government/is this 'act of God' underwritten by an insurance company ........... ad nauseam.

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Re: tsunami Japan

Postby Roger Ramjet » Thu Mar 24, 2011 4:59 pm

Geordie and MGV12,
Not true at all. The Top Gear team repaired a whole road overnight with minimum inconvenience to the public. The video is on youtube.
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