No wonder they come to LOS for medical teatment

Issues related to medical treatment.

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No wonder they come to LOS for medical teatment

Postby MGV12 » Wed Dec 04, 2013 8:24 am

It's always been a bit crazy but this is WTF crazy!

Paying Till It Hurts
E.R. Visit


As Hospital Prices Soar, a Stitch Tops $500

SAN FRANCISCO — With blood oozing from deep lacerations, the two patients arrived at California Pacific Medical Center’s tidy emergency room. Deepika Singh, 26, had gashed her knee at a backyard barbecue. Orla Roche, a rambunctious toddler on vacation with her family, had tumbled from a couch, splitting open her forehead on a table.

On a quiet Saturday in May, nurses in blue scrubs quickly ushered the two patients into treatment rooms. The wounds were cleaned, numbed and mended in under an hour. “It was great — they had good DVDs, the staff couldn’t have been nicer,” said Emer Duffy, Orla’s mother.
I invite you to share your experiences by responding to the questions that will appear as you read this article. Your comments will inspire and inform follow-up articles on the cost of hospital care, to be published later this week.
— Elisabeth Rosenthal, Reporter

Then the bills arrived. Ms. Singh’s three stitches cost $2,229.11. Orla’s forehead was sealed with a dab of skin glue for $1,696. “When I first saw the charge, I said, ‘What could possibly have cost that much?’ ” recalled Ms. Singh. “They billed for everything, every pill.”

In a medical system notorious for opaque finances and inflated bills, nothing is more convoluted than hospital pricing, economists say. Hospital charges represent about a third of the $2.7 trillion annual United States health care bill, the biggest single segment, according to government statistics, and are the largest driver of medical inflation, a new study in The Journal of the American Medical Association found.

A day spent as an inpatient at an American hospital costs on average more than $4,000, five times the charge in many other developed countries, according to the International Federation of Health Plans, a global network of health insurance industries. The most expensive hospitals charge more than $12,500 a day. And at many of them, including California Pacific Medical Center, emergency rooms are profit centers. That is why one of the simplest and oldest medical procedures — closing a wound with a needle and thread — typically leads to bills of at least $1,500 and often much more.

At Lenox Hill Hospital in New York City, Daniel Diaz, 29, a public relations executive, was billed $3,355.96 for five stitches on his finger after cutting himself while peeling an avocado. At a hospital in Jacksonville, Fla., Arch Roberts Jr., 56, a former government employee, was charged more than $2,000 for three stitches after being bitten by a dog. At Mercy Hospital in Port Huron, Mich., Chelsea Manning, 22, a student, received bills for close to $3,000 for six stitches after she tripped running up a path. Insurers and patients negotiated lower prices, but those charges were a starting point.

Chelsea Manning in St. Clair, Mich., in November. She tripped and fell in the driveway of her home, and needed six stitches for which she was billed close to $3,000.Joshua Lott for The New York Times

The main reason for high hospital costs in the United States, economists say, is fiscal, not medical: Hospitals are the most powerful players in a health care system that has little or no price regulation in the private market.

Rising costs of drugs, medical equipment and other services, and fees from layers of middlemen, play a significant role in escalating hospital bills, of course. But just as important is that mergers and consolidation have resulted in a couple of hospital chains — like Partners in Boston, or Banner in Phoenix — dominating many parts of the country, allowing them to command high prices from insurers and employers.

Sutter Health, California Pacific Medical Center’s parent company, operates more than two dozen community hospitals in Northern California, almost all in middle-class or high-income neighborhoods. Its clout has helped California Pacific Medical Center, the state’s largest private nonprofit hospital, also earn the highest net income in California. Prices for many of the procedures at the San Francisco hospital are among the top 20 percent in the country, according to a New York Times analysis of data released by the federal government.

“Sutter is a leader — a pioneer — in figuring out how to amass market power to raise prices and decrease competition,” said Glenn Melnick, a professor of health economics at the University of Southern California. “How do hospitals set prices? They set prices to maximize revenue, and they raise prices as much as they can — all the research supports that.”

In other countries, the price of a day in the hospital often includes many basic services. Not here. The “chargemaster,” the price list created by each hospital, typically has more than ten thousand entries, and almost nothing — even an aspirin, a bag of IV fluid, or a visit from a physical therapist to help a patient get out of bed — is free. Those lists are usually secret, but California requires them to be filed with health regulators and disclosed.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/12/03/healt ... u_20131203

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Re: No wonder they come to LOS for medical teatment

Postby geordie » Wed Dec 04, 2013 10:07 am

Anyone with doubts I visit Thai hospital regularly bearing in mind its free in UK here I pay for uninsurable problem
My last visit to a local Thai hospital cost were embarrassing
ECG to confirm discomfort caused by asma
3 hours in emergency room on nebuliser
4/5 examinations by doctor
3 different sets of tablets
One antibiotic injection

Total cost 850 Baht = less than two packets of cigarettes which probably contribute to me being there

Having witnessed a guy receive 140 stiches as a result of a motorbike accident in America he would have ended up selling his house
my comments may be wrong but never deliberately
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Re: No wonder they come to LOS for medical teatment

Postby Mike Judd » Sat Jan 04, 2014 7:38 pm

As one who came from a generation who looked at the U.S.A. with some envy at their life style and achievements, I wouldn't want to be seen as indulging in a bit of U.S. bashing. But after several visits over the years and the way the world has changed, I wonder what way they seem to be heading, the so called "Land of the free" is increasingly becoming a land of have and have-nots. The whole Medical system seems to be driven by outright greed with no consideration given to the general good of society.
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Re: No wonder they come to LOS for medical teatment

Postby schuimpge » Sat Jan 04, 2014 9:28 pm

10 years ago, in SG, I went over handle bar of my bike, hitting a concrete side of a road and my friends told me to stay down as they called and ambulance. (had a cut in my head and was bleeding).

So came the ambulance, but being in Normanton Park, down a slope, so they walked down a steep stairs, checked, stabilized my neck, fastened me on a stretcher and then looked up the steep stairs and said...eeeeh...cannot do.
I am quite tall, 192cm, so where my two friends, so all discussed, my 2 friends taking the back of the stretcher, 2 short, Chinese Singaporeans taking the front and I was hauled off to the waiting ambulance.

Upon reaching there, I was shoved in, next embarrassment came. A giggling and worrisome looking doctor was looking and asking with the most possible straight face I'd ever seen: 'can you pull up your legs?'
I asked why and the answer delivered with the sweetest smile: 'To close the doors'

Arrived hospital, had an X-ray, then stitched up, 7 stitches if I recal correctly, and with a bandage, medicine bag, I was sent home.

It all cost me the embarrassing amount of 70 SGD, or 1750 THB at today's rates.
I joked at the time with friends and family that they'd not even picked up the phone for that money back in Europe... Holds true till today...
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Re: No wonder they come to LOS for medical teatment

Postby sirineou » Sat Jan 04, 2014 11:09 pm

Mike Judd wrote:As one who came from a generation who looked at the U.S.A. with some envy at their life style and achievements, I wouldn't want to be seen as indulging in a bit of U.S. bashing. But after several visits over the years and the way the world has changed, I wonder what way they seem to be heading, the so called "Land of the free" is increasingly becoming a land of have and have-nots. The whole Medical system seems to be driven by outright greed with no consideration given to the general good of society.

Mike as an American I have to agree with you wholeheartedly
The medical insurance situation here is disastrous to say the least and unless it is rectified i will ruin the country.
Image
I could go through all the ills of it,but who has time for it, suffice to say, there many
The Obama plan attempts to correct some of the ills, by requiring every one to be insured, and thus spreading the risk among the healthy and sick, But it is facing stiff opposition from the medical insurance industry
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Re: No wonder they come to LOS for medical teatment

Postby Mike Judd » Sun Jan 05, 2014 7:06 am

Jeeze! What could the U.S. do with all those Tax dollars if they got out of all those foreign countries with their military, but then that wouldn't please all their Defence contractors who are probably one of the last manufacturers left in the U.S. All the rest have gone to China or Mexico.
Is this all part of the "New world order" I hear so much about,and the Agenda with so many countries seemly on a self destruction course encouraged by their own Politicians.
On the medical question, we do seem to have a fairly balanced health care system here in Oz, some where in-between the out of control National health scheme in the U.K. and the survival of the fittest in the U.S. Every one working pays one and a half percent on their income and after you reach a certain income level you are encouraged by increased taxation to join a private health fund which gives one lots of increased benefits and cuts out that extra taxation levy.
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Re: No wonder they come to LOS for medical teatment

Postby schuimpge » Mon Jan 06, 2014 7:11 pm

That's what used to be in holland. Then came the glorious idea to make it all private. Spiraled out of control and now you pay outrageous monthly fees and healthcare has never been worse.
You better hope in Oz the system stays as it is.
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Re: No wonder they come to LOS for medical teatment

Postby pipoz » Mon Jan 06, 2014 8:04 pm

Mike Judd wrote:Jeeze! What could the U.S. do with all those Tax dollars if they got out of all those foreign countries with their military, but then that wouldn't please all their Defence contractors who are probably one of the last manufacturers left in the U.S. All the rest have gone to China or Mexico. Is this all part of the "New world order" I hear so much about,and the Agenda with so many countries seemly on a self destruction course encouraged by their own Politicians.


They just have to change their Foreign Policy and stop trying to Americanize the rest of the world (Why should Australian have to become Americans?). Then they will become a wealthy country again. How much have they spent on the Military and other Covert Operations Oversees in the past ten years? My guess is probably 20% (if not more) of their national debt of 17 Trillion
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Re: No wonder they come to LOS for medical teatment

Postby schuimpge » Mon Jan 06, 2014 8:12 pm

pipoz wrote:
Mike Judd wrote:Jeeze! What could the U.S. do with all those Tax dollars if they got out of all those foreign countries with their military, but then that wouldn't please all their Defence contractors who are probably one of the last manufacturers left in the U.S. All the rest have gone to China or Mexico. Is this all part of the "New world order" I hear so much about,and the Agenda with so many countries seemly on a self destruction course encouraged by their own Politicians.


They just have to change their Foreign Policy and stop trying to Americanize the rest of the world (Why should Australian have to become Americans?). Then they will become a wealthy country again. How much have they spent on the Military and other Covert Operations Oversees in the past ten years? My guess is probably 20% (if not more) of their national debt of 17 Trillion


Much more than that... The Afghanistan and Iraq wars alone cost 6 Trillion dollars! That's already over 30%.
Then you start counting all the 'normal' peace-time spending to maintain the military....
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Re: No wonder they come to LOS for medical teatment

Postby sirineou » Mon Jan 06, 2014 9:08 pm

The pie chart I posted before, is the wrong one, I just noticed that it is from 2009 and it is the R.N.D. budget
(Research and development)
This is the 2014 budget, not much better :(
See bottom of post for chart, I dont know how to get it to move to it's proper place :(
President Eisenhower, a military man, warned against the dangers of the Military Industrial Complex on his farewell address to the Union.
watch min 6:33 to 9:02
Unfortunately failed to take heed of this warning and are now paying the price.
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Re: No wonder they come to LOS for medical teatment

Postby MGV12 » Mon Jan 06, 2014 9:39 pm

sirineou wrote:The pie chart I posted before, is the wrong one


Just can't get good help these days :P

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Re: No wonder they come to LOS for medical teatment

Postby pipoz » Mon Jan 06, 2014 9:51 pm

schuimpge wrote:
pipoz wrote:
Mike Judd wrote:
Much more than that... The Afghanistan and Iraq wars alone cost 6 Trillion dollars! That's already over 30%.
Then you start counting all the 'normal' peace-time spending to maintain the military....



Oh, how I could spend 6 Trillion dollars in Pattaya :oops: :lol:
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Re: No wonder they come to LOS for medical teatment

Postby MGV12 » Mon Jan 06, 2014 10:24 pm

schuimpge wrote:
Much more than that... The Afghanistan and Iraq wars alone cost 6 Trillion dollars! That's already over 30%.
Then you start counting all the 'normal' peace-time spending to maintain the military....


A major benefit of being a Superpower is that there is nobody to stop you spending money you do not have.

Reminds me of the thinking of my first two wives :(

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Re: No wonder they come to LOS for medical teatment

Postby sirineou » Tue Jan 07, 2014 1:23 am

pipoz wrote:

Oh, how I could spend 6 Trillion dollars in Pattaya :oops: :lol:

Dont spend it all though,
afterwards you will need at least 1 trillion for antibiotics, and a good defibrillator :lol:
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Re: No wonder they come to LOS for medical teatment

Postby sirineou » Tue Jan 07, 2014 1:30 am

Ohh I just noticed the title of this thread, I thought it was "medical treatment"
I did not realize it was "medical teatment
Pipoz is right for that you definitely need to go to Pattaya. :lol:
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