open sub floor / insulate

Air conditioning, fans, and anything related to keeping it cool, such as insulation. This would include any posts generally discussing how to keep it cool, such as which types of blocks are better insulators.... ideal wall thickness for keeping an A/C house cool, etc.

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Re: open sub floor / insulate

Postby Roger Ramjet » Sat Jan 24, 2015 5:16 pm

BKKBILL wrote:很抱歉


Which again should have been 我很抱歉 - 爱词霸
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Re: open sub floor / insulate

Postby arranp » Wed Jan 28, 2015 11:08 am

Regarding ventilation, you are again wasting time on pipe dreams. Currently we open the glass doors because its cool in the morning (we have fly screens), but when it gets warmer the house stays closed all day long. Who in their right mind would set-up a solar chimney and drag all that hot air into a 75 degree house that only goes to 86 on the hottest of days.


I've given some thought to this, my conclusion is, I would prefer to have windows and doors open during the day to feel the breeze passing through my house. Given this scenario a solar chimney would help lift the hot air up and out from the vaulted ceilings (at least).

I understand that your way Mr Ramjet is to retain the cold air inside your home that has been acquired through the previous night, and do this by keeping all doors and windows closed. But this is not my preferred way of living I would like apertures to be open and feel the breeze.

Thank you, but I think we have 2 different styles of living at home, yours is all windows doors closed to keep the cool retained over night, mine is to keep all windows and doors open to feel the breeze.
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Re: open sub floor / insulate

Postby Roger Ramjet » Wed Jan 28, 2015 1:16 pm

arranp wrote:Thank you, but I think we have 2 different styles of living at home, yours is all windows doors closed to keep the cool retained over night, mine is to keep all windows and doors open to feel the breeze.

It is currently 93 degrees outside in the shade: today is cool. Inside the house it is 74 degrees. There is no breeze at all today and we had fog up until it got "burnt away" at 1030 hrs.
Now I have a small block of land, just 30metres X 11 metres, but at least is faces North/South and is situated in the middle of wide open rice paddies and is not blocked (from a breeze) like some peoples' homes are/will be.
Even today there is no breeze. Many days there is no breeze or just a gentle one. Other days it blows gales here, especially during the monsoon season and it's batten down the hatches, well, not really I just leave things as they are. I even started off with beautiful wooden front doors that I had to get rid of because they wouldn't keep out the rain, let alone keep in the cool air. I learnt a lot of lessons the hard way, especially when along came a 100 year flood. And instead of raining just daily it rained for 4 months straight. And I made many mistakes along the way, but I did have an open mind about most things. I also had visitors who also commented about where I had gone wrong, where it was going to go wrong and I had this blog and I welcomed all comments, but mostly I listened.
I also watched Grand Designs, not because I liked the presenter, I didn't, but to see where other people went wrong. Mostly they ran out of money with their grandiose ideas and many had to sell their "dream" home at the end, or turn it into a bed and breakfast. I swore that was not going to happen on my limited budget. I also swore I would leave a house my daughter and her kids could live in. I did a lot of swearing, especially at builders and my first builder was one of the best. He could speak English, he had a crew, he was there everyday, but to be sure so was I and so was my building foreman at the start and I made sure they could all read plans.
When I lived in a townhouse at Pak Kret Village an amateur "greeny architect" had all the things you describe. He had a solar chimney (that didn't work) because hot air rises and the cool air he did have was still in the house and the hot air was outside and when there was no breeze (the solar motor) nothing moved, so as his house got hotter he reverted to motors and fans to push the air through. Which of course buggers the passive cooling or solar aspect straight away.
And during the wet season he was always out in the pissing rain capping off things and modifying his designs and in the end his townhouse looked like it had been designed by Steptoe and Son. But as they say in Thailand, "up to you".
Now I'm a bit of a "greeny" myself having lived in a tent for 12 years and then moved up to a vehicle for 9 years. I've also travelled extensively right across Australia and other parts of Asia, and in the jungle I can tell you it's hot during the day, very hot even with all that passive cooling from the trees and then at night it's freezing. I've sat at night under a tent and been saturated because the rain was horizontal. I can tell you I learnt a lot during those years, most of which came from actually being there and doing that. Most important of those lessons was never the look of something, it was how it performed under extreme conditions and in Thailand, like the rest of Asia the weather is extreme.
I've even had to do repairs at this new house, but they have been failures, not of nature, but mechanical failures or bad design failures. And because I have no shame and tell it warts and all I documented all those failures in My Building Story. Along with sound advise from many people here I got around those mishaps and I soldiered on. I now have a 90% complete house that is functional, been tested to the maximum and serves its purpose. Cool in the day, waterproof and solid as a rock. I do not give a crap about aesthetics, I like things to function properly.
I like to walk out of my house and know I don't have to worry about anything.... like windows left open, doors that don't seal properly, rain getting in, electrical faults, and all those things that do go wrong when you're away. I open, close and lock one door and that's it, the house and the local Police look after the rest.
arranp wrote:I've given some thought to this, my conclusion is, I would prefer to have windows and doors open during the day to feel the breeze passing through my house. Given this scenario a solar chimney would help lift the hot air up and out from the vaulted ceilings (at least).

No what you want is the hot air blowing through your house. Don't forget your house will be as hot as the outside air. It may seem cooler to you, but that is because you're in the shade and you sweat, but it won't be cooler.
You're wasting money buying superblock and Colorbond......just get the local Issan builder to slap-up one of his red brick constructions that look aesthetically pleasing to you but has no function and please keep posting "your ideas" about passive cooling, but let me remind you that you live in the tropics and passive cooling here is called shade. It's why all the Thais who can afford it have air conditioning and the ones that can't afford it have fans.
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Re: open sub floor / insulate

Postby arranp » Wed Jan 28, 2015 1:41 pm

Roger Ramjet wrote:You're wasting money buying superblock and Colorbond......just get the local Issan builder to slap-up one of his red brick constructions that look aesthetically pleasing to you but has no function and please keep posting "your ideas" about passive cooling, but let me remind you that you live in the tropics and passive cooling here is called shade. It's why all the Thais who can afford it have air conditioning and the ones that can't afford it have fans.


I currently rent a house which has a single course wall, the sun sets in the west onto wall at the back of my bed, the wall is hot on the inside, I have to use air-con sometimes for a couple of hours to cool the room down, then switch to the fan before going to sleep. Single course of brick is not the way forward it holds the heat from the day and you can feel it in the room at night.

The cavity in a double course (wall) would stop the radiant heat at the outer course, the inner course would be cooler than the outer course.

Also, the roof is the typical, orange tile, I'm guessing it has the paper foil insulation because I've never been up there, but the internet guy when they came to install fibre, went up, when he came back down he was covered in sweat. So the attic in my rented house is also hotter than the floor level. However a metal white roof with PU foam insulation, vaulted would at least keep the temperature on the underside of the roof at the ambient shaded temp. Most of the heat would be reflected away by the white metal.
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Re: open sub floor / insulate

Postby Roger Ramjet » Wed Jan 28, 2015 3:45 pm

arranp wrote:I currently rent a house which has a single course wall, the sun sets in the west onto wall at the back of my bed, the wall is hot on the inside, I have to use air-con sometimes for a couple of hours to cool the room down, then switch to the fan before going to sleep. Single course of brick is not the way forward it holds the heat from the day and you can feel it in the room at night.

The cavity in a double course (wall) would stop the radiant heat at the outer course, the inner course would be cooler than the outer course.

Also, the roof is the typical, orange tile, I'm guessing it has the paper foil insulation because I've never been up there, but the internet guy when they came to install fibre, went up, when he came back down he was covered in sweat. So the attic in my rented house is also hotter than the floor level. However a metal white roof with PU foam insulation, vaulted would at least keep the temperature on the underside of the roof at the ambient shaded temp. Most of the heat would be reflected away by the white metal.

So what happened to the solar chimney and passive cooling you've been talking about for weeks?
All you've done is go around in circles and come back to what I said in the first place.
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Re: open sub floor / insulate

Postby arranp » Wed Jan 28, 2015 4:01 pm

Roger Ramjet wrote:
arranp wrote:I currently rent a house which has a single course wall, the sun sets in the west onto wall at the back of my bed, the wall is hot on the inside, I have to use air-con sometimes for a couple of hours to cool the room down, then switch to the fan before going to sleep. Single course of brick is not the way forward it holds the heat from the day and you can feel it in the room at night.

The cavity in a double course (wall) would stop the radiant heat at the outer course, the inner course would be cooler than the outer course.

Also, the roof is the typical, orange tile, I'm guessing it has the paper foil insulation because I've never been up there, but the internet guy when they came to install fibre, went up, when he came back down he was covered in sweat. So the attic in my rented house is also hotter than the floor level. However a metal white roof with PU foam insulation, vaulted would at least keep the temperature on the underside of the roof at the ambient shaded temp. Most of the heat would be reflected away by the white metal.


So what happened to the solar chimney and passive cooling you've been talking about for weeks?
All you've done is go around in circles and come back to what I said in the first place.


for the moment, no change to the idea of including a solar chimney in the blue prints. I see this as a passive energy free air induction that will re-cycle the air in the house, also with vaulted ceilings warm air can hang around in the upper air space, the ducts from the solar chimney will suck out this air maintaining a constant air-circulation during the day.

Got some temperature readings from a friends place, taken yesterday at 3pm.

31.0*C / 87.8*F ambient air temp (taken from thermometer fixed on shaded balcony)
29.5*C / 85.1*F water temperature from pool exposed to direct sunlight
26.5*C / 79.7*F water temperature from concrete water tank under house ( few thousand litres )

drop a reasonable length of air pipe into the concrete tank, with suction this would take in ambient air ( 31.0*C ) at one end and would exhale cooler air ( 26.5*C + something ) out at the other.
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