BYOP

Any thing to do with swimming pools, fish ponds, or other man made structures which hold water (but not wells for drinking water).

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BYOP

Postby cruzing » Tue Jun 07, 2005 7:45 pm

Build your own pool.

Okay Dozer, you're probably going to move this one too, but don't know where to put it. :?:

I found this really cool website about building your own pool. Granted this is building your own pool in the states, but the guy has a LOT of useful information. So if you're interested in a swimming pool check out this site, at least you'll be informed even if you have someone else do it all.

http://buildingyourownpool.com/

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Re: BYOP

Postby Attila » Tue Jun 07, 2005 9:02 pm

cruzing wrote:Build your own pool.
...
http://buildingyourownpool.com/

Cruzing


Cruzing, you did it again! Just what I was looking for!

When I did see that the prices for small pools are here already 300000 plus :x , I did decide that I will build it myself (well, not using my hands, but hands for hire of course), and not have a pool company build it. THIS info is just what had been missing to let me understand how to do it :)

Thanks again!
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pattaya pool companies

Postby dozer » Tue Jun 07, 2005 9:11 pm

When I did see that the prices for small pools are here already 300000 plus


What has happened with pool companies is they have become 'farangized'. I haven't done a pool yet, but have on the drawing boards either a 25 meter long or 50 meter long lap pool (about 4 or meters wide). Also a buddy of mine did a pool on his own. He learned some things mostly because he had a radically different design, which I wouldn't follow, but turned out pretty nice -- and very inexpensive.

The pool companies are not a rip off per se, but they are specifically for farangs and price the pools about 1/2 way between what it should cost here and how much you would pay overseas.

That being said, before I do one (not with my own hands either) I will be sure to research it and find a builder who has done 3 or 4 pools in the past, or at least has some pool experience.

cruzin - thanks for the link!
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Postby Boon Mee » Tue Jun 07, 2005 10:07 pm

I'm three years away from building my pool but it's on the drawing board (Microsoft Visio Pro) as well.
Thanks much, crusing, for the "heads-up"! :P
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Postby Guest » Wed Jun 08, 2005 9:03 pm

In Pattaya, most pool companies charge around 12,000baht per sq met, believe me this is not an excessive charge, and could turn into a very costly mistake if your concrete mixes, or rebar size or footings are wrong because you chose to build it yourself, water is heavy at 1 kilo per liter, plus you have to take into account half a dozen people jumping into the pool at the same time and the amount of shock this will cause to the pool walls etc, unless you have a proper civil plan for your pool I would recommend you use a proper pool company to build it, it only takes one bad connection in the plumbing under the swimming pool to completely mess it up and become a very expensive experiment.
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build you own pool

Postby dozer » Thu Jun 09, 2005 8:42 am

it only takes one bad connection in the plumbing under the swimming pool to completely mess it up and become a very expensive experiment.
That would kind of the be whole idea of this site, how to avoid ending up with a house or pool that is 'junk'. It isn't just pools, I know of one really expensive house around here that is basically falling down, done with a reputable farang contractor, but there was a bad subcontractor (etc. etc. etc.). The point is it happens when you don't have any idea what is being done and 'trust' someone to 'just do it'.

If you look at the buildyouownpool.com site that Cruzing provided, I think there are a lot of good tips in there, even though it is the US. The guy started from the same basic point: how do I build a quality pool myself without being a pool expert? How do I find the tradespeople? How do I know the sequence of what needs to be done? How do I know the materials that need to be used? What type of plan would be called for?

At the cost of 12000 per square meter a 25 x 15 (large) pool would cost about 4.5 m baht. If you compare with US prices from that site (that Cruzing provided), it looks to me that the Thai prices are at least as high. Kind of seems out of whack, since most construction is about 25 - 35% of the cost of US construction.

unless you have a proper civil plan for your pool
here's what I'm talking about. What goes into doing a pool? This is a good starting point: a proper plan signed off by an engineer. If you don't know all of the metal and other materials that are going to go into it up front, ask yourself this question: do I really need a pool?

If I was going to get a pool company to do a pool at 12000 per sq. meter, you better be sure that I would know a thing or two before hand about what they were going to do. I mean, even with references and all, I wouldn't recommend 'just trusting' them to do it right.

Hopefully the first coolthaihouse reader to do one will post up the specifics here. We have the idea, now we need the details.
Last edited by dozer on Thu Aug 11, 2005 7:09 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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pool building costs

Postby cruzing » Thu Jun 09, 2005 9:15 am

Anonymous wrote:In Pattaya, most pool companies charge around 12,000baht per sq met, believe me this is not an excessive charge,




Wow!! you don't think 12,000 baht per sq met is excessive? My house didn't cost that much per sq. met and it's built pretty high quality I think. Anyway, $300 dollars (approx.) U.S. per sq. met. doesn't fit into our budget. No way will I ever get my lap pool at those rates.

So....guys any info you find out about BYOP I'll be watching for it.

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Postby Guest » Thu Jun 09, 2005 9:38 am

Dont forget, that on that basis of 12,000baht per sq meter I have included the pump and filter, that is a minimum of 60,000baht just there, also your swimming pool needs a resovoir which should be about one third the literage of the pool, the swimming pool is not just the bit you swim in, there is a lot more to it than that.
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pump and filter costs

Postby cruzing » Thu Jun 09, 2005 9:55 am

doesn't matter, 12,000 baht per sqm. still too expensive for my pocketbook.

As for the resevoir, is that something they just do here? If you had to have a resevoir for a pool in california-- not positive-- but am pretty sure you'd have trouble building a pool. My pool in s. ca. was blasted out of bedrock, and most of the backyard (no lawn) was pool and right by the house, no place for a resevoir 1/3 the size of that pool. :)

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Postby the limey » Thu Jun 09, 2005 7:44 pm

The pumps and filters are imported into Thailand so there is really nothing any swimming pool company can do about the price for them, the resevoir is needed to store water and have some way of turning your pool water over each day, ie you pump from your resevoir and over flow your pool which then runs back into the resevoir, the profit margin on building a swimming pool is about 30 percent, this really is not a lot when you consider the responsibility the builder is taking on, although then again will they accept liability if they mess it up is another question.
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Do not build a pool yourself

Postby Peter H » Sun Jul 10, 2005 11:06 pm

Never build a pool yourself unless its a pond of 3x6m and 80 cm deep
I looked at 4 own built pools before I decided to sign a contract with a pro.
These owners have never ending headaches now :( . Pipes leaking under the pool, walls cracking, filter dimensions to small etc etc
Water is very heavy and requires a solid construction. Only CPAC concrete casted in one day is the solution. My pool is 8x16 m plus children pool 5x5 m. Total water volume 180 m3 or 180,000 liters plus concrete 50 tons. Total weight 230 ton or nearly the weight of an Airbus.
This pool is standing on 36 columns reaching 15 meters down.
I payed 1.2 mill because upcountry uplift. THB 8000/ m 2 . The price to build this in Pattaya would be THB 900,000 incl. 2 pumps and 2 filters and pool deck. More than 30 pool builders there (lots of competition)
PS: a 5x10 meter fiberglass pool incl pump and filter is already available for THB 300,000
Some pool links
http://www.pools.com
http://www.swimmingpools.com
http://www.poolandspa.com
http://www.aquatechnology.net
Can learn everyday
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pool

Postby dozer » Mon Jul 11, 2005 11:36 am

Peter; would be very interested in your experiences regarding the pool. If you could, start a new thread and run it down from the beginning, especially if you have some photos of the preliminary work, setting in the columns, having the cpac poured, etc. and can share that would be fantastic. thanks....
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Re: pool

Postby Guest » Mon Jul 11, 2005 1:35 pm

dozer wrote:Peter; would be very interested in your experiences regarding the pool. If you could, start a new thread and run it down from the beginning, especially if you have some photos of the preliminary work, setting in the columns, having the cpac poured, etc. and can share that would be fantastic. thanks....

Unfortunately I did not take photos of the colum work but I try to find some others and then I will start a new thread. Just a moment.
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Postby Guest » Mon Jul 11, 2005 5:08 pm

I believe I have a swimming pool to build next month, I will do a pictorial of it, but as Peter says, this is something that really does need to be done by a specialist, water is heavy, and 2 normal 100kilo farangs jumping into a pool at the same time creates a lot of shocking power, also knowing which strengh cpac concrete to use for the pours etc is something you cannot afford to make a mistake on, look at it this way, most of you would not take on the job of supervising the construction of a 10 storey building, so don't take on the job of supervising the building of your pool, ok 1 and 2 storey houses are easy as most ppl know the specs needed for the structure, but pools are a little bit more complicated.

The Limey without a password.
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Postby Attila » Mon Jul 11, 2005 8:39 pm

Anonymous wrote:I believe I have a swimming pool to build next month, I will do a pictorial of it, but as Peter says, this is something that really does need to be done by a specialist, water is heavy, and 2 normal 100kilo farangs jumping into a pool at the same time creates a lot of shocking power, also knowing which strengh cpac concrete to use for the pours etc is something you cannot afford to make a mistake on, look at it this way, most of you would not take on the job of supervising the construction of a 10 storey building, so don't take on the job of supervising the building of your pool, ok 1 and 2 storey houses are easy as most ppl know the specs needed for the structure, but pools are a little bit more complicated.

The Limey without a password.


That will be nice, to see your pictorial!

Well, Peter's pool is a bigger one, there is some knowledge and experience needed to do it right, indeed!

But it is one of the secret of the success of mankind, that we can use the knowledge and experience of others, and build on it. Especially when we started to pass on our knowledge and experience in written form.

Now a swimming pool might need some special knowledge, but that does not change it, we can learn how to do it from the knowledge and experience of others. Even rocket science you can learn that way! OK, you still should have some hands on experience, in order to understand what the "teacher" is talking about.

But then, I see it as not different from the guidelines about the perimeter walls which dozer did put together on this site. A bit more complex may be, and then again maybe not.

I always hear that water is heavy, and that therefore it cannot be done by me myself. Well, I would word that a little differently. Water is heavy, and therefore you need to have a good foundation for your pool.

Peter did need a lot of real big / deep posts. But that was mainly because he did build on a former rice field / swamp.

No matter how heavy your stuff is, you need a foundation. And if you build on compacted earth, even on sand, a thicker concrete floor without any posts, but with a lot of steel in it, will do it. Just because Thais seem to build all using posts does not make that that the only correct way to build. You have some weight, and distributing that over the whole floor is more stable than to concentrate it on some points, the posts and their foundation. Obviously you need to go much deeper when you use points.

Try the experiment of carrying a kilogram steel in your hand. carry it on a flat side, and you feel no pain. Carry it on a nail, and that nail will hurt you a lot.

Thus, as long as you do not build on water / on a swamp, a strong floor as foundation will do. Even for a swimming pool, or better especially for a swimming pool. because water is not only heavy, but also liquid, it gives you a perfect weight distribution.

If you do not use enough concrete / enough steel for the floor, then of course it can and will crack.

Same for the walls. If you use a concrete wall with enough steel in it, nothing will crack it. Now make sure this wall and this floor are linked together good enough, and that should do it.

So the question is for me more: How strong must the floor and walls be, how thick, how much concrete, how much steel, and what type of cpac do I need. I'm convinced that this information is available, and if I study it carefully, I can have a good spec for my pool. And nothing will crack.

Now if I build on water / a swamp there is a different knowledge added. Like they do it for all the skyscrapers in Bangkok, which are also standing on water. Huge posts, and you need this extra knowledge.

I'm lucky, I'm building on dry and easy to compact sand. No swamp, no water. Thus a strong floor will do, be it the swimming pool or be it the house. And this is the way houses are build in many countries.

Now, can I prove it? May be not so fast, because using a lot of conrete with steel is not cheap, I do not think my budget will allow it very soon.

Overall, I agree with all your warnings, Peter and Limey, "do not build your pool yourself". I would just like to add: "if you are not willing or able to learn how to do it."

May be I cannot learn it, because it is indeed to complex, and I do not have the time to go through it. May be it is above my head. But I learned so many things, I might give it a try :wink:

So I take your warnings not as warning not to do it myself, but as warning to not take it too easy, and that there are a lot of things which can go wrong. And I'm grateful for these warnings, they show me where the problems are. Hmmm, sound like a nice challenge :wink: :D
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