New pool DIM

Any thing to do with swimming pools, fish ponds, or other man made structures which hold water (but not wells for drinking water).

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Re: New pool DIM

Postby Breizh29 » Thu Mar 16, 2017 3:18 pm

Klondyke wrote:
Rdteth wrote:
In fact, the pool pump can be used for the spa too. Once enjoying the whirls of the spa, the water pressure can be switched over to the spa system instead to the normal pool system. One of the positions of the 6-way valve is for whirlpool, then the pressure to the spa jets will be increased bypassing the sand


Interesting option.
But would't you be pumping the "dirty" tankwater straight out the spa jetnozzles?


Firstly, I do not think that in the OF tank is a dirty water to be sucked by the pump. Should not - I wrote about it how to arrange the incoming water into the OF tank, in order not to whirl up the bottom dust).

Secondly, if it is the case, you close that intake and run only on the other intake(s) from the pool (same as you would run with the second pump anyway, wouldn't you?).


Description of the six-way valve of the sand filter:
Filtration to clean the pool water,
Cleaning the sand filter,
Rinsing the filter and piping after washing the sand filter,
Emptying the pool water (sewer),
Circulation of water without passing through the filter,
Closing the filtration system.

I don't quite understand the technique you are talking about or is it simply via the valves to channel some of the water on the spa circuit? :|
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Re: pumps and filters

Postby Klondyke » Thu Mar 16, 2017 6:33 pm

Breizh29 wrote:
Klondyke wrote:
Breizh29 wrote:
I think for an overflow pool with reverse hydraulicity it is not necessary to use the bottom drain on normal operation (filtration). (but maybe I'm wrong?)
Some swimming pools are not equipped.

I do not know what you mean by "reverse hydraulicity".

Bottom sucking:
Yes, some pools do not have it. However, if we have got it, it is very good. Firstly, it is good for the fine dust sucking (and so its disposal) from the lower layers of the pool water, clearing the water, the dust will not come by itself up to the overflow. And thus postponing the necessity of (manual) bottom vacuuming.

Secondly, after the bottom vacuuming and a proper filter backwashing the water in the pool needs to be replenished by a new water - some 1,000 - 3,000 l, in order to get the pool water again up to the OF edge and have some more water in the OF tank. Such new water volume is not always available (especially at my troubled water system) - there is also another need for it in and around house - so the recirculation/filtration will run with the water sucked from the pool bottom.


What is called inverted hydraulicity (a great word I know!) is simply the backflow of water into the pool from the bottom by the nozzles located in the bottom slab. The effect of this technique is normally to attenuate the dead zones at the bottom of the pool.


"backflow of water into the pool from the bottom" ? Sorry, I do not quite understand. How it can flow?
Anyway, the piping for our MickeyMouse pools should be rather kept simple, easy to understand how to handle. For my 12 x3 m I have 2 outlets in the thirds of the bottom length where from I suck the water by the pump to the filter - in addition (in parallel) to sucking from the OF tank. And this bottom intake is throttled a bit, if I want to get the OF too (by sucking the water from the OF tank).
And not to forget to have another inlet to the pump - for the vacuum sucking. Then, when used, all other inlets should be shut off - the best with one master valve.
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Re: pumps and filters

Postby Sometimewoodworker » Thu Mar 16, 2017 6:44 pm

Breizh29 wrote:What is called inverted hydraulicity (a great word I know!) is simply the backflow of water into the pool from the bottom by the nozzles located in the bottom slab. The effect of this technique is normally to attenuate the dead zones at the bottom of the pool.

"inverted hydraulicity" otherwise known "in English" as reverse flow
:lol:
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Re: New pool DIM

Postby Klondyke » Thu Mar 16, 2017 7:00 pm

Klondyke wrote:Firstly, I do not think that in the OF tank is a dirty water to be sucked by the pump. Should not - I wrote about it how to arrange the incoming water into the OF tank, in order not to whirl up the bottom dust).

Secondly, if it is the case, you close that intake and run only on the other intake(s) from the pool (same as you would run with the second pump anyway, wouldn't you?).


Breizh29 wrote:Description of the six-way valve of the sand filter:
Filtration to clean the pool water,
Cleaning the sand filter,
Rinsing the filter and piping after washing the sand filter,
Emptying the pool water (sewer),
Circulation of water without passing through the filter,
Closing the filtration system.

I don't quite understand the technique you are talking about or is it simply via the valves to channel some of the water on the spa circuit? :|


Filtration to clean the pool water, = normal operation (with or w/o OF)
Cleaning the sand filter, = backwashing, the outlet - dirty water - goes into drain or garden, etc.
Rinsing the filter and piping after washing the sand filter, = after backwashing very shortly before changing again to filtration
Emptying the pool water (sewer), = drain, the water goes dirty out, the position used also when vacuum sucking of very dirty bottom *)
Circulation of water without passing through the filter, = that's for the SPA (whirlpool)
Closing the filtration system. = all in/out filter are closed, when opening/cleaning the pump basket

*) when vacuum cleaning just the fine dust, the position of the 6-way valve does not need to be changed, keep at "Filtration". The sucked dust will get caught by the sand filter, filtered water goes back into pool. Thus saving the pool water. With this, however, the outlets into the pool are to be closely watched for a situation when a dirty water (as a cloud) starts to return into the pool, the filter sand is overwhelmed by the dirt. I do that mostly for a half of the pool, then change to fully drain, saving partly my precious water. Afterwards, the dirt from the filter will be backwashed anyway.
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Re: pumps and filters

Postby Breizh29 » Fri Mar 17, 2017 9:02 am

Sometimewoodworker wrote:
Breizh29 wrote:What is called inverted hydraulicity (a great word I know!) is simply the backflow of water into the pool from the bottom by the nozzles located in the bottom slab. The effect of this technique is normally to attenuate the dead zones at the bottom of the pool.

"inverted hydraulicity" otherwise known "in English" as reverse flow
:lol:

I had warned from the beginning that my English was poor! :oops:

But for "" reserve flow " I take... :lol:
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Re: New pool DIM

Postby Breizh29 » Fri Mar 17, 2017 9:55 am

Klondyke wrote:Filtration to clean the pool water, = normal operation (with or w/o OF)
Cleaning the sand filter, = backwashing, the outlet - dirty water - goes into drain or garden, etc.
Rinsing the filter and piping after washing the sand filter, = after backwashing very shortly before changing again to filtration
Emptying the pool water (sewer), = drain, the water goes dirty out, the position used also when vacuum sucking of very dirty bottom *)
Circulation of water without passing through the filter, = that's for the SPA (whirlpool)
Closing the filtration system. = all in/out filter are closed, when opening/cleaning the pump basket

*) when vacuum cleaning just the fine dust, the position of the 6-way valve does not need to be changed, keep at "Filtration". The sucked dust will get caught by the sand filter, filtered water goes back into pool. Thus saving the pool water. With this, however, the outlets into the pool are to be closely watched for a situation when a dirty water (as a cloud) starts to return into the pool, the filter sand is overwhelmed by the dirt. I do that mostly for a half of the pool, then change to fully drain, saving partly my precious water. Afterwards, the dirt from the filter will be backwashed anyway.

Thanks Klondyke but I knew the role of each position.
For me, the circulation without passing by filter is :
     to perform a mixing of the water of the pool, for example to avoid frost in winter if you make an active wintering (maybe not too useful in Thailand :lol: ),
     during a shock treatment, for a better mixing of the products,
     to facilitate priming of the pump if the pump has defused.
This position will also allow you to diagnose any problems related to the filter.

If you use this position to power the spa nozzles, it means that during this time you no longer filter the water from your pool.
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Re: New pool DIM

Postby Breizh29 » Fri Mar 17, 2017 10:07 am

Is your spa dependent of your pool? I mean by that, does the spa water go into the pool before going into the OF tank?
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Re: New pool DIM

Postby Klondyke » Fri Mar 17, 2017 10:19 pm

Breizh29 wrote:Thanks Klondyke but I knew the role of each position.
For me, the circulation without passing by filter is :
     to perform a mixing of the water of the pool, for example to avoid frost in winter if you make an active wintering (maybe not too useful in Thailand :lol: ),
     during a shock treatment, for a better mixing of the products,
     to facilitate priming of the pump if the pump has defused.
This position will also allow you to diagnose any problems related to the filter.

I assume that the all these functions you hardly will need. Perhaps sometimes the one for avoiding the pool freeze up (In case you dwell on Doi Inthanon). But the freeze could be better avoided by adding a nam yaa (antifrost liquid) into the pool. However, quite difficult to buy it in Thailand - and so many hectoliter :D


Breizh29 wrote:If you use this position to power the spa nozzles, it means that during this time you no longer filter the water from your pool.

I admit that during your spa-ing you will have to take into account that the water will not be filtered. However, I hope the pool will survive it (and you either), how many hours daily do you plan to spend in the spa?

BTW, when you swim in the pool the water surrounding your body is also not really fresh filtered. Incidentally, the few liters might not got the chance today to be pushed through the sand, perhaps tomorrow?
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Re: New pool DIM

Postby Klondyke » Fri Mar 17, 2017 10:40 pm

Breizh29 wrote:Is your spa dependent of your pool? I mean by that, does the spa water go into the pool before going into the OF tank?


Yes, the spa is always connected with pool. In my case I have one nozzle (not very sharp) that serves also as a water outlet to the small shallow pool for kids - and from there it flows further into the adult pool. Hence, the water does not stay there w/o exchange.

However, I have to admit we do not use it much as a spa, I rather make use of the available time for long track swimming - along the length 12 m and back again - to accomplish my daily duty 1 km.
(In fact, it does not go in OF tank, only later from the pool on)

Image
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Re: New pool DIM

Postby Breizh29 » Sat Mar 18, 2017 12:52 pm

Klondyke wrote:
Breizh29 wrote:Is your spa dependent of your pool? I mean by that, does the spa water go into the pool before going into the OF tank?


Yes, the spa is always connected with pool. In my case I have one nozzle (not very sharp) that serves also as a water outlet to the small shallow pool for kids - and from there it flows further into the adult pool. Hence, the water does not stay there w/o exchange.

However, I have to admit we do not use it much as a spa, I rather make use of the available time for long track swimming - along the length 12 m and back again - to accomplish my daily duty 1 km.
(In fact, it does not go in OF tank, only later from the pool on)

My question was for Rdteth because I have doubts when seeing his last pictures.
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Re: New pool DIM

Postby Rdteth » Wed Mar 22, 2017 8:16 pm

No need for doubts.
The spa is a part of the pool.
No barriers, no nothing, just an elevated floor, a place to sit, some gadgets for getting the water ( and air) turbulent, a table in the middle for the drinks and a big umbrella to keep the sun out.

Why would you have any doubts?
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Re: New pool DIM

Postby Rdteth » Thu Mar 23, 2017 7:00 am

a pic..
Attachments
20170323_065851.jpg
no barriers just a walkthrough
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Re: New pool DIM

Postby Rdteth » Mon Apr 10, 2017 7:27 am

Got another group at work now.
After songkran they will do the rendering.
I want to use sua faa ( tiger blue, special for concrete).

Anybody knowing this stuff, pls share youre experience.
Since it will be a big rendering job.

Thanks

Rene
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Update may 8 2017 New pool DIM

Postby Rdteth » Mon May 08, 2017 8:23 pm

Since it is getting really quiet at the poolfront, I will update.

Last statement by me was about having a team to render. Already two teams further , at the moment I'm on my own again. Sorry to say this time, since the last team -a two brother team- did a good job at a decent price, that is when they actually came to do some work. I sent away any group that scores under 50% working time. So it is my fault all these changs got fired, according to the wife. The reason they are chang is that they only work when no money in pocket or there wifes tells 'm to go work.
I admit guilt to not understanding this perspective of living.

What happened lately:
The stairs are made. The sitting in the spa is made. Both fully filled with sten280 waterproof cpac concrete. 4m3 only.
The walls without gutter where build up and the "jab siam" is put in place. Jab siam being the outer ridge where the render will be placed within. Expertjob by the 2 brothers @45 baht per meter. Also the ridge for the tank was made by them and the ridges in and on top of the spa. Very well done and being round ones not easy.
Some areas did got a single scratch layer of render. Did not use the "tiger blue" render. Went for home made iinci cement with fine sand, admixed with weber.neo.latex for bonding and weber.add.mortar for waterproofing.
1 part cement wth 2 part sand and 0.5 part mixed water.
Very strong stuff and no lime at all. Weber stuff according to weber application notes.

And then there was a girly meeting again. Since the walls were standing there was a strong girly movement to the hight or better the depht of the water. And no approving noises. No they wanted me to make it no deeper than 140. Well after long talks we agreed on a edge all around the deep area about 50 cm under waterlevel and wide enough to sit on. To me to implement ofcourse. (I only make the edge 40 cm under waterlevel).

So I decided to build an extra wall around the deep area. Part of this projekt is to have something to do, after all at least 1.5 years ago. And I know for a long time already that this pool is not for swimming laps, but only to accomodate the girly parties.
With this wall new creativity came along as it is an oppertunity to put in some more pipes for water effects.
And now I'm putting up 3000 it deng doubles at a rate of 200 per day max. I obviously forgot in all the exitement that my physical condition is in no state for such a task and all changs have gone and no prospekt for a new team.

Let's just see what happens, nothing new there is there?

Until next time and since I have to attend some business in the old mothercountry it can take a while.

Cheers and enjoy the G&T's like I do.
Rene
Attachments
20170508_195618.jpg
building some walls again.......
20170505_090628.jpg
entrance to spa getting along
20170508_201325.jpg
stairs in place
20170505_090459.jpg
tank with part of wall, jab siam and renderlayer. watch your neck.
20170508_195758.jpg
blow out at the spa. fixed. notice the jab siam
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Re: New pool DIM

Postby Breizh29 » Fri May 12, 2017 3:13 pm

Hi Rdteth,
I appreciate your humor! :wink:
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