infinity-edge swimming pools

Any thing to do with swimming pools, fish ponds, or other man made structures which hold water (but not wells for drinking water).

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infinity-edge swimming pools

Postby fredlk » Wed May 18, 2011 10:50 am

I have owned a normal in-ground swimming pool in the past with a normal sand-filter and a skimmer. At first I vacuumed manually, but I switched to a Baracuda (or was it a Kreepy Krauly?) which I got from South Africa. To my knowledge that fantastic and simple piece of equipment is still in action 20 years later, but that's not the point of this topic. I have 2 questions which might be logical to some, but not yet to me as I learn more about the new systems I will be installing.

1. If you don't have a skimmer with in it, under the basket, an attachment for the vacuum hose, where is the attachment for the hose in an infinity-edge pool?

2. My pool will be 100 to 180 centimetres deep and the water will flow over the infinity edges (over a stepped wall) into the trough which will be 180 centimetres lower down. From the trough the water goes into the holding-tank after which it is pumped back up again. If the trough is at 0 centimetres (the bottom of the pool's outer wall) must the holding tank be lower than that or can it be at the same level and higher or would it then need a pump to get the water into it from the trough?
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Re: infinity-edge swimming pools

Postby pattayapope » Wed May 18, 2011 12:52 pm

Fred

Just my comments from my infinety edge pool to answer your question.

1. The pump suction has three valves, one from the surge tank, one from the lower part of the main pool and the third is on the side of the pool about 30 cm down. Normal operation is to take suction from the surge tank and maybe a little from the main pool (part open valve), when you use the vacuum cleaner you take the pump suction from the third valve and close the other two. I guess the one in the main pool is for emptying the pool or if you want to clean out the surge tank.

2. Water will not flow up hill so your surge tank should be lower than the trough, you maybe able to do it with a secondary pump but this would make it too complecated. Normal skimmer pools are not full so when people go in the water it just raises the level a little but with an infinety edge pool it is already overflowing so the water must go somewhere. You probably understand this already but someone else reading this thread may not know.
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Re: infinity-edge swimming pools

Postby fredlk » Wed May 18, 2011 1:10 pm

pattayapope wrote: your surge tank should be lower than the trough

Thanks. I thought I might have to bury the surge tank in the ground. That won't be too difficult as half of what needs digging out was filled by us before we started.
pattayapope wrote: the third is on the side of the pool about 30 cm down

It's still not quite clear. I forgot to add that my pool was a liner pool, not tiled and so there were no valves or attachments in the pool other than that in the skimmer basket.
Where is it you attach your vacuum hose, to the one 30 cm. down?
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Re: infinity-edge swimming pools

Postby fredlk » Wed May 18, 2011 1:41 pm

Going through the plans I found the architect's position for the surge-tank - it looks like it will be pumped (I remember now that we discussed access in the patio floor):
centre cross-section.jpg
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Re: infinity-edge swimming pools

Postby Maseratimartin » Wed May 18, 2011 1:59 pm

Just one question:

Why I need the holding or surge tank?
If I would create the lower part of the pool, where the overflow run into, big enough and there use a bottom skimmer....should this not be enough?

Why is it done so complicated?

Finally it is only to get a big enough water reservoir...or am I wrong?
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Re: infinity-edge swimming pools

Postby fredlk » Wed May 18, 2011 2:07 pm

Maseratimartin wrote:If I would create the lower part of the pool, where the overflow run into, big enough and there use a bottom skimmer....should this not be enough?

The surge-tank collects the water to refill what has flowed out, but some might be lost through evaporation (or leaks) and so the surge-tank also has a top-up valve with a ball-cock to add water when necessary. Your way might work but you will have to manually top up all the time because otherwise your overflow runs dry and your pump seizes.
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Re: infinity-edge swimming pools

Postby Maseratimartin » Wed May 18, 2011 2:20 pm

Yes, but you could install a top up valve as well in the lower pool part.

I mean there are many solutions... if you have trouble in placing your surge tank, but you may have space to build a slightly bigger lower pool part this could solve your issue.
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Re: infinity-edge swimming pools

Postby pattayapope » Wed May 18, 2011 3:12 pm

fredlk wrote:It's still not quite clear. I forgot to add that my pool was a liner pool, not tiled and so there were no valves or attachments in the pool other than that in the skimmer basket.
Where is it you attach your vacuum hose, to the one 30 cm. down?


Fred I was not trying to refer to the skimmer pool you had which probably never had a vacuum hose attachment other than the one in the skimmer, on an over flow pool you have a connection on the side were you can connect the hose and it looks like below picture. This in plumbed to the pump suction and by opening this valve and closeing any other valaves all the water is drawn thru the cleaning head and hose

Hope this helps to explain better

1_V.jpg
Special fitting for vacuum hose on side of pool


House 04.jpg
You should be able to see the small white fitting at the edge of the pool for vacuum hose
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Re: infinity-edge swimming pools

Postby fredlk » Wed May 18, 2011 3:23 pm

pattayapope wrote:on an over flow pool you have a connection on the side were you can connect the hose and it looks like below picture.

Thanks I understand it now, plain and clear. :D It's a completely separate item/connection and not part of the normal filtering unlike what I used to have.
Maseratimartin wrote:Yes, but you could install a top up valve as well in the lower pool part. I mean there are many solutions...

There might be, but I'm not an expert and that is why I've been asking some more questions to get my knowledge up to scratch. The trough at the bottom of my pool will be part of a further system to be added later in the garden and so I will need an overflow tank. There is more than enough space under the patio behind the swimming pool next to the basements where all the filters and pumps will be housed.
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Re: infinity-edge swimming pools

Postby fredlk » Wed May 18, 2011 5:08 pm

fredlk wrote:Going through the plans I found the architect's position for the surge-tank - it looks like it will be pumped

Studying my own plans in detail I think that the system is designed so that water is pumped (through the filter) up into the surge-tank which at the top flows out into the pool and over the wall. There will only be one pump used and not two. The top of the tank is at floor-level minus 20 centimetres and the infinity-edge at minus 30.
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Re: infinity-edge swimming pools

Postby pattayapope » Thu May 19, 2011 8:02 am

Fred to be honest something does not sound right with your explanation, the purpose of the surge tank is to accomadate the water displaced whe people go in the pool, if you do not have sufficient storage at the trough below the infinity edge then you will end up watering the garden[*] :roll:

Maybe you could post the plan and I could get a better idea
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Re: infinity-edge swimming pools

Postby fredlk » Thu May 19, 2011 8:23 am

pattayapope wrote: something does not sound right with your explanation

That is because I don't really know what I am talking about. :lol: That's why I'm asking all these questions.
pattayapope wrote:the purpose of the surge tank is to accomadate the water displaced whe people go in the pool

.... and to keep the infinity-edge covered after water-loss due to evaporation.
pattayapope wrote:if you do not have sufficient storage at the trough below the infinity edge then you will end up watering the garden

The trough will be large, very large. The whole wall and trough will be very similar to this one, but in white:
536744581_42bc8b2733.jpg

pattayapope wrote:Maybe you could post the plan and I could get a better idea

All I have is as posted above. The detailed plans have not been drawn and we still have some discussion to go as to where to place the inlets, where to place lights, etc., etc.
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Re: infinity-edge swimming pools

Postby Maseratimartin » Thu May 19, 2011 8:44 am

Fred, think about what I said...
Just make the lower part, instead of about 10-20cm deep, 110-120cm deep!
Install the pop up valve in this lower part and you will have a huge surge reservoir.
Actually with using a pop up valve you can minimize the reservoir...every liter what goes will be immediatly refilled...!
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Re: infinity-edge swimming pools

Postby fredlk » Thu May 19, 2011 9:02 am

Maseratimartin wrote:Just make the lower part, instead of about 10-20cm deep, 110-120cm deep!
Install the pop up valve in this lower part and you will have a huge surge reservoir.

Yes that is a good idea and I will remember it when we come to build.

The plan is for the trough to be filled to the brim with its own infinity-edge under a small bridge. Under the bridge will be the actual conduit back into the pool.

Also under the bridge will be a fresh-water source flowing into another trough which will be the start of a 'river' running down the hill and ending in "the lake".
It will look as if the swimming-pool waterfall is the source of the river. "The lake", approximately 8 metres by 10 will be at the bottom of the garden in the northeast corner.
We have yet to figure out if the water-source for the river will be pumped the 2 metres up from "the lake" or directly from the borehole.
I will do a show-and-tell in my topic over the next couple of years. :D
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Re: infinity-edge swimming pools

Postby jazzman » Sun Jun 12, 2011 4:19 pm

Fred, interesting house - I seem to have seen a very similar set of plans recently.
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