waterproofing additive

Any thing to do with swimming pools, fish ponds, or other man made structures which hold water (but not wells for drinking water).

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waterproofing additive

Postby enzo » Mon Jun 30, 2008 7:15 am

Hi,

I would like to buid a small pool (decorative) or a fontaine closed to my house.
I would like to know which waterproofing additive you suggest.

Does the additive have to be mix with the concrete ? Is it enough ?
Or does a waterproof chemical have to be put on the wall and floor pool as well before the tiles ?

Could you recomand some brand name ?

Im living in Bkk but my house is close to in Uthaithani.
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Re: waterproofing additive

Postby jazzman » Tue Jul 01, 2008 3:17 pm

There are several brands of waterproofing additive. It is not expensive and you can buy it from most hardware stores and certainly from HomePro, HomeMart and GlobalHouse. Only a very little is needed and a 25 litre drum will be enough for up to 20 cubic metres of concrete. You mix it into all the concrete for the floor and the walls. It is also used for mixing into the concrete of paths and roadways, and any concrete that may cover the flat roof of a house.

In Thai it is called
นำ้ยาผสมตอนกรีต หรือ มอร์ตา สำหรับงานกันชึม
ืืNAM YAA PASSOM CONCRETE LIEU MORTAR SAMRAP GNAN GANSEUM

which translates to English as
treatment liquid for concrete and mortar mix to make water proof
We usually just say:
"nam yaa ganseum" or if you want the German pronunciation you would say "nam yaa gansöm"

We use SIKA Plastocrete which is the best and only costs about 460 baht for a 25 litre and it is also sold in 5 litre cans. You can't miss it - it's in a bright yellow rectangular PVC cannister with a red triangular logo and blue writing. The instructions are very clear and in Thai and English.
Last edited by jazzman on Tue Jul 01, 2008 9:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: waterproofing additive

Postby enzo » Tue Jul 01, 2008 7:23 pm

Thanks for your answer.

I saw this brand name few time obviously. I will like to add that your introduction
for the pool building is very clear and useful.

I have another question. Light for pool are somewhere not so cheap.
I saw some small spot light (glass and steel) with led light 12 v .
It looks quite waterproof for the exterrior, maybe just need little bit silicone .

Do you think it is possible to use it?

The problem is how to change the light if i put concrete on this spot.
Did you see some people doing something like that ?
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Underwater lights

Postby jazzman » Tue Jul 01, 2008 9:33 pm

I ould never use electrical fittings for anything other than what they are intended for. It would be dangerous to use any lights in water that are not specifically used for underwater use. Underwater pool lights are 12V, 100W and start at around 3,000 baht. They have special junction boxes, and are supplied with transformers.
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Re: waterproofing additive

Postby grant » Wed Jul 02, 2008 2:03 pm

[quote="enzo"]

I have another question. Light for pool are somewhere not so cheap.
I saw some small spot light (glass and steel) with led light 12 v .
It looks quite waterproof for the exterrior, maybe just need little bit silicone .

Underwater pool LED lights are extremely expensive. I've decided to go with 100 watt 12v halogen surface mount lights. When the price of the LED lights comes down to a reasonable level and quality, they can easily be changed out.
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Re: waterproofing additive

Postby jazzman » Wed Jul 02, 2008 7:49 pm

grant wrote:they can easily be changed out.

...easy if they are from that same brand that uses the same plastic housing for the 100W, 12V light and the LED version, because the tiles and rendering will have been cut back already the required 1 cm. It will still mean emptying the pool (unless you want to work in waist-high water), threading the new cables through the conduit and reconnecting the deck boxes.
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Re: waterproofing additive

Postby ifreeman » Mon Nov 09, 2009 10:00 pm

jazzman wrote:There are several brands of waterproofing additive. It is not expensive and you can buy it from most hardware stores and certainly from HomePro, HomeMart and GlobalHouse. Only a very little is needed and a 25 litre drum will be enough for up to 20 cubic metres of concrete. You mix it into all the concrete for the floor and the walls. It is also used for mixing into the concrete of paths and roadways, and any concrete that may cover the flat roof of a house.



Hi,

I am building a concrete Jacuzzi on the terrace of the second floor (above the living room of the 1stfloor) and I have also some flat concrete roofs. Will this kind of additive be enough for waterproofing the terraces and roof or should I add Rubber Membrane such as EPDM to avoid major damages in case of leakage?

thanks
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Re: waterproofing additive

Postby jazzman » Tue Nov 10, 2009 5:08 am

A rubber membrane will not be necessary unless the vessel is so large that the wight of the water will try to force the water out through any joints.

It should be sufficient for a jacuzzi if the vessel is properly constructed of concrete with waterproofing additive, if the plastering has waterproofing additive. Weber (orange & yellow bag, about Baht 275 per 20 Kg bag ) or Crocodle brand (about 185 Baht 40 per 20 Kg bag) tile adhesive for swimming pools should be used, together with special Crocodile grout (Baht 40 per 1 Kg bag) for underwater use.

With tile cement and grout, be sure the workers follow the instructions implicitly, otherwise they will do it the Thai way. As some of them cannot read, get somene to read the instructions aloud to them, and demonstrate the use of na quirl attachment fr a power drill.
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Re: waterproofing additive

Postby BKKBILL » Tue Nov 10, 2009 11:37 am

jazzman wrote:tile adhesive for swimming pools should be used, together with special Crocodile grout (Baht 40 per 1 Kg bag) for underwater use.


Jazzman, do you think it would be a good idea to use that special Crocodile grout in showers to help prevent the mold and mildew. It seems to start in the corners and on the grout.
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Re: waterproofing additive

Postby MGV12 » Tue Nov 10, 2009 12:12 pm

BKKBILL wrote:
jazzman wrote:tile adhesive for swimming pools should be used, together with special Crocodile grout (Baht 40 per 1 Kg bag) for underwater use.


Jazzman, do you think it would be a good idea to use that special Crocodile grout in showers to help prevent the mold and mildew. It seems to start in the corners and on the grout.


Most definitely use a mould resistant and 'waterproof' grout in showers, around baths and I would suggest everywhere in a kitchen or bathroom. Indeed, I use it it any tiled area that will be wet-mopped when cleaning, surface water dries quickly here but the relatively high humidity will still promote mould and fungal growth due to trapped moisture; you won't notice the extra in your budget.

The Crocodile 'Made in the USA' brand has, to my knowledge, a good reputation but the Weber 'Made in Thailand' brand should also be considered as it appears to contain all the same 'anti-whatever' ingredients but at a considerably cheaper price; premium contractors I know always specify it.

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Re: waterproofing additive

Postby jazzman » Tue Nov 10, 2009 1:36 pm

MGV12 wrote:The Crocodile 'Made in the USA' brand has, to my knowledge, a good reputation but the Weber 'Made in Thailand' brand should also be considered as it appears to contain all the same 'anti-whatever' ingredients but at a considerably cheaper price; premium contractors I know always specify it.


The Weber grout costs about 17 baht a 1 Kg bag. The paradox is that their swimming pool tile addhesive is twice the price of the Crocodile swimming pool tile adhesive.
I always use the Crocodile grout. Even at 40 baht/bag it does not impact on the price of an entire house.
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Re: waterproofing additive

Postby MGV12 » Tue Nov 10, 2009 3:33 pm

jazzman wrote:
MGV12 wrote:The Crocodile 'Made in the USA' brand has, to my knowledge, a good reputation but the Weber 'Made in Thailand' brand should also be considered as it appears to contain all the same 'anti-whatever' ingredients but at a considerably cheaper price; premium contractors I know always specify it.


The Weber grout costs about 17 baht a 1 Kg bag. The paradox is that their swimming pool tile addhesive is twice the price of the Crocodile swimming pool tile adhesive.
I always use the Crocodile grout. Even at 40 baht/bag it does not impact on the price of an entire house.


The basic Weber grout might be around 17 Baht a Kg but their 'waterproof/anti-fungal' grout [subject of this post] is 40 Baht a Kg bag, whereas the Crocodile equivalent is 57 Baht a Kg bag. Prices may vary a little from store to store but that's comparing apples with apples at Global House CM when I was there buying it today; IMHO the only useful comparisons for members is prices they would pay retail.

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Re: waterproofing additive

Postby BKKBILL » Wed Nov 11, 2009 11:53 am

I never gave tile grout that much attention always spending the time looking at tile type, colour, finish, and style then after a purchase just grabbing grout on the way out of the shop. Most often Crocodile brand mainly because of the “made in USA” on the bag. On my last three bathrooms here one had a shower base that came with shower, the other two had tile floors. The one with the manufactured base is fine the other two are not. The biggest problem seems to be the tile setters didn’t push the grout into the joints hard enough. This has caused areas where the grout is washed out leaving standing water and a place for mold and mildew to grow. All three have shower door but on my next build I will design for no doors allowing for better drying and grout will be on my to-check list and the swimming pool type will be at the top of that list.
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Re: waterproofing additive

Postby MGV12 » Wed Nov 11, 2009 12:34 pm

BKKBILL wrote: The biggest problem seems to be the tile setters didn’t push the grout into the joints hard enough. This has caused areas where the grout is washed out leaving standing water and a place for mold and mildew to grow. All three have shower door but on my next build I will design for no doors allowing for better drying and grout will be on my to-check list and the swimming pool type will be at the top of that list.


The technique of setting the tiles in a cement base has inherent problems when it comes to grouting. In the UK we tend to use a tile adhesive, applied with a toothed comb and then lightly set the tile, using cruciform plastic spacers to hold them apart until the adhesive sets; this leaves the space between the tiles clear for a good grout penetration. A very different approach to many tilers [and others] who apply tiles on a cement base by tapping the tile [hard enough some times to break it!] repeatedly until it stays in place, this forces some of the cement into the spaces between the tiles which also helps them to maintain a grout space --- it doesn't however leave a clear space for the grout itself. Essential to use a high quality grout whatever, essential also to ensure good penetration and, if set in cement, make sure the cement has a waterproof agent included if it's in a 'wet' area as you will never get your worker to clear out the grout space before the cement sets. You are not the only one to give little thought to grouting BKKBILL ---- SO MUCH to consider in a build --- but I have seen consequences from leaking showers in very expensive builds that would make you cry; especially if you had to stump up the repair costs! Termites don't eat cement, unless it's a composite with cellulose added, however they love damp areas and will be attracted to the moisture from a leaking shower as it provides a safe haven into the house .... and those little suckers [chewers] can get through MINUTE DAMP cracks as they don't need to build their little dirt tunnels to gain access. No build is perfect wherever you are on the planet but certain things should be on your short list of maximum vigilance and adhesives/grout is one of them.

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Re: waterproofing additive

Postby ifreeman » Thu Nov 12, 2009 10:38 am

thanks everyone for your answers and information
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