Building costs and Misc Questions

Anything to do with prices. Raw material prices or prices for finished material (or labor such as well drilling). Project prices (how much will it cost??), etc.

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Building costs and Misc Questions

Postby jazzman » Mon Jul 30, 2007 7:18 pm

[Editor: Split from a run on long post here posthttp://www.coolthaihouse.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=40]

Steve hasn't posted on this web site for over two years.

What's your building budget?

Have you checked this out yet?
http://coolthaihouse.com/cthpics/thumbnails.php?album=6
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Postby petertucker48 » Tue Jul 31, 2007 10:49 am

Hi jazzman

I have checked out your site and am very impressed,you have gone to a lot of trouble to help us inexperienced first timers which is very much appreciated. [Editor: Ah Hum! Actually unless I missed something it is not Jazzman's site but mine ..... Dozer]

I have 161 sq wa (644 sq metre) on a square plot of land with a great mountain view.
I looking for a 2 bed/2 bath house very similar to yours which everyone on the forum likes.
I think I may have to get 8 metre piling because the land is a land fill situation of less than 1 year.The concrete poles for this cost around 2000 each bht including hammering in to the ground.

I was hoping to do it for around Bht1 million.nothing over the top in fittings etc.

If you can offer any advice at all it would very much appreciated.

many Thanks

Peter :?
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Less than a million!

Postby jazzman » Tue Jul 31, 2007 6:41 pm

Hi Peter,

You could do it for around half that. For a million you would get the perimiter wall done, the garden laid out and a swimming pool built as well.

Let me know what you need to know.

I like Cha Am. I spent a couple of days there not so long ago on a business trip.
How to build a $20,000 / £14,000 house and a $???? MOTEL Updated 21 March 09 - with BOQ and costs
Don't let this happen in YOUR house.
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Postby nickcar » Sun Aug 12, 2007 7:44 pm

Hi Jazzman,

Lots of questions and still a bit unfamiliar with the forum concept so if you think I should be in a different forum please tell me.

I have spent hours reading the massive amount of invaluable infomation posted by you and others - a real eyeopener.

I have 20 rai of land in Nakhon Nayok that I bought at auction about a year ago for about 1,200,000.00, It was originally 22 rai until I had the land department survey it and discovered the road around the edge was on my land. :oops:
I have a floor plan which i drew with visio. 170 sq. meters. with 5 beds and 3 baths. additional 50 sq. meters of covered patios.

First big question is "can I afford it?". I have yet to get a handle on the sq. metre cost. I see your figures which seem to be about 7000 baht. Everybody else talks about 10,000 to 15,000 sq. meter, Given that I am not a builder, and also that I will not be able to visit the site every day, and that I would like to have good quality double glazing etc. can you give me an idea of what I can expect per sq.metre? I can afford up to 2,000,000.00 but have to allow in that for the inevitable underestimates. The house is somewhat bigger than I need so I can always downsize a bit if it's to much.

Of course I want a swimming pool as well and the very detailed costings etc of yours will be a great example..

Thanks

Nick
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Postby jazzman » Mon Aug 13, 2007 12:02 am

It's still an incredibly big piece of land and an even more incredible bargain at only 60k per rai. You realise it would take almost one hour to walk round the perimiter? 1.2 mio baht would normally be a price for 2 (TWO) rai.

To answer your questions, here is an excerpt from an earlier posting of mine. Please note the quoted prices.


Jazzman's bungalow is 156 m2,
also has a hip roof (complicated - builder's don't like them). Not skimping on materials at all and using expensive Granito instead of tiles on the floor and a lot of electrics everywhere.
Price: materials and labour 556,000 baht,
and by pure coincidence that works out at 3,628 baht per m2. Turn-key solutions for similar houses in the coffee table books and magazines are priced from 1.5 million* or about 10,000 baht/m2.
Jazzman's swimming pool, concrete, in-ground, 5 x 12, would have cost a basic original budget of 220,000 but having chosen some expensive goodies for the floor, walls and deck, some sexy underwater programmed lighting efex, and a really cool fountain for the kids, a splash pool and slide for the adults and balance tank technology with salt-water chlorinators for Jazzman to mess with, well, it's going to cost more around 380,000 :(
A pool company quoted 880,000 !


Without seeing your floor plan and an idea as to kind of roof and the materials you intend to use, it's impossible to put a ball park on the project. From what you describe, you could be looking at anything between 1 mio and 3 mio baht. Double glazing could cost you up to 300,000 alone, where tinted UV glass is quite adequate and a lot cheaper. The kind of window frames you use could also vary from 200,000 to 350,000 for a house that size. And the roof tiles could cost from 28,000 to 150,000. You can pay 950 baht for a toilet or you can pay 14,000. You could end up spending 120,000 on tiles for the floor too, instead of 24,000. The labour costs for what you plan on constructing will be below 300,000.
You add all that up now and see how close you come under or over your budget.

I experimented with several different designs and material prices before I finally settled for what we built. It's easy to get carried away with software, and very easy to fall into a lot of traps and make mistakes if you don't have a basic knowledge of room design and planning. Either that, or you risk coming up with something which may be logical to us, but which will be far beyond the grasp of Thai builders.
The problem with the Thais is that they won't tell you they can't do it. they'll try, and they'll make a big mess of it. You will be paying for their misunderstandings.
I used traditional drafting methods, but I studied technical drawing as a kid at school and I'm able to see in my mind's eye what the finished product will look like.

Here's the link to my photo album again:
http://coolthaihouse.com/cthpics/thumbnails.php?album=6

and do check out Dozer's main pages on this site too.
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Postby nickcar » Mon Aug 13, 2007 7:53 pm

I must say I am very pleased with the land. It is about 6 rai of land at the road level with several nice mature trees - mostly big old mangos - i guess about 25 years old. The rest is rice paddy. I plan to have the house up from ground level by about 1 metre as even though the neighbors say it never floods - better safe than sorry.

I also plan eventually to have a big lake a lot more trees - fruit and ornamental - planning to try getting some NZ natives.

I purchased the land at auction from the "Bangkup kadee" I suppose we would call the legal execution department. Fortunately nobody living on it so no hearts broken.

I suspect there are still many bargains to be had there.

Local neigbours have offered to sell adjoining land at 300,000.00 per rai so its not as violently cheep as it seems - although I agree a very good bargain.


I plan to get a little more perspective into the house plan - maybe with sketchup before I then get an architect to draw up the proper plans. Thanks very much for your tip about keeping it simple - Of course I should know by now that the thais will never say no - i come across it every day at work but one tends to forget these things when working outside of ones expertise.

I suspect as drawn by me it will be very boring as I tend to think in straight lines and "can't see the result in my minds eye"
:)

I will be certainly very stingy with the house materials - no chance of me spending 10,000 when 1000 will do. I am very keen to make the house as energy efficient as I can. I expect I will need air conditioning so that why I was thinking of double glazing. Just how much better would double glazing be than tinted UV glass?

Roofing I know very little about - just want something thats efficient for keeping the heat out. what is a Hip roof?

By the way I see many builders like you using granito flooring. I have considered marble as its supposed to help keep the house cool. What is granito?

My current condo has lovely parque floor that cost me about 100,000.00 10 years ago (135 sq mtrs) but I don't think I will consider wood for the house as I know there are masses of termites there.

I will regularly review yours and dozers building experiences - especially when the time comes to apply them.

cheers

Nick
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Postby jazzman » Mon Aug 13, 2007 8:37 pm

A hip roof is one that slopes up on all sides and therefore has a short ridge.
A roof that is straight, with a long ridge and flat ends at each end of the house is called, logically, a 'saddle roof'.

They both use exactly the same number of tiles to cover the same area, but a hip roof (that's what I have on my house) is more expensive because of the complex steelwork and the fiddly building. It also uses a lot more, expensive ridge tiles becquse it has ridges going down on all four sides.

It's really only a question of aesthetics, but I think hip roofs sure look good. One a dvantage is that you have low, wide overhanging eaves all round to keep the sun off the walls.

Double glazing : As far as I or any other members of this board can ascertain, there appear to be no real advantages to be gained by expensive double glazing over good, genuine UV filtered tinted glass, set in quality aluminium or uPVC frames - see http://wrvinyl.com

Granito is a leading brand name for polished, composite granite slabs. They are usually 60 x 60 and popular colours are almond and flesh tones, see this example and my notes : http://coolthaihouse.com/cthpics/displayimage.php?album=6&pos=54

You've already seen them everywhere on the floors of more commercial buildings. They are extremely hard wearing and because it is composite and not gcoated, glazed ceramic, they can be reground and polished if they get scratched or damaged. They must be cut with a wet blade diamond tile cutter. prices start around 600 baht /m2. be sure to buy enough from ONE batch to cover your floor.
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Postby nickcar » Sun Aug 26, 2007 4:40 pm

Hip roof sounds good. Also notice that most of the houses one sees in advertising have them.

Re double Glazing - Having spent many years in England I am used to the concept of keeping heat in - Not keeping it out. Not being very strong on Physics I don't understand much of the difference except that hot air rises so that insulating the ceiling is important.

Re Granito. How do you find it to walk on in bare feet (which is my preferred mode in the home)

re ceiling height. My condo's ceilings are about 2.20 Metres. I have heard that about 2.80 is standard for a house and 3.00 is luxurious. If I choose 3.00 would this have a significant effect on the cost of building or on the cost of cooling.

cheers

Nick
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Additional cost of 3m ceiling

Postby hkexpat » Mon Aug 27, 2007 12:17 pm

Nickcar,

I don't think that going from a standard 2.8 ceiling to 3 will change your price too much. Here's my reasoning:


From your earlier post, your place is planned to be 170m2, that's about 13 X 13m. Thus you'd need about 52 linear meters of blocks for the external walls. Assuming your ceiling height increase 0.2 meters (from 2.8 to 3m) that would give an additional 10.4 square meters of blocks. you of course would need to render this also, so say another 20.8m2 of render (inside and outside). Plus any additional wall finishes, paint, tiles or whatever.

Assuming blocks cost 180baht/m2 and render 80baht/m2 that's a total of 1,872 for the blocks plus 1,664 for render for materials.

Assuming 80 baht/m2 for labour, that's 2,496baht. Thus the additional cost would be in the order of 6,032 baht.

For the internal walls, since I don't know your floor plan, assume that it's double the external wall, so the total estimate would be in the region of 12,000 baht.

I'm not a structural engineer, but I'd guess that this increase in height would have negligible effect on your foundations, so I'd wager that there would not be a cost implication on your foundations.


HKexpat
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Postby jazzman » Tue Aug 28, 2007 2:13 am

I'm not so hot on physics either but I would assume that the higher the ceilngs are, the longer the air inside would take to heat up. Disadvantage is of course that if you're using air con, it means longer for the air to cool down!

We have 2.6 m ceilings and no air con. Beautifully cool!

Granito is the same for walking on as tiles. It is beautifully smooth.

Double glazing is very much a British 'thing', like cavity walls, hallways, and fish 'n chips. In asingle sorey house, the wide eave overhang does much to keep the sun off the walls and windows. UK houses don't have any eave overhangs for that reason.
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Jazzman may post a lot on this site, and so do others too, but visitors are heartily encouraged to look for answers in Dozer's superb main pages before asking questions.
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Postby nickcar » Sun Sep 02, 2007 7:36 pm

Expat and Jazzman,

Thanks - lots of questions answered.

Next question. I want to raise my house up from the natural ground level by about a meter. Natural ground level is at least 20 years old so should be solid. I know I have the option of slapping 1 meters plus of soil and waiting for it to settle but I'm not very keen on that because lots of trees around around and I don't want to damage their roots by careless application of soil. My thinking is that I will have the footings of the house (as shown in various pics such as jazzman's) increased so that the house floor level is up by at least a meter and then fill in with soil and use thast machine to compress.

Thoughts?

Cheers
Nick
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Postby dozer » Sun Sep 02, 2007 9:21 pm

It is a good way to go if you only want to increase the level of the house itself, but not the surrounding ground. Also, for your foundation columns they should really be 1 meter + deep into the original ground (even if you let new fill dirt settle).
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Postby nickcar » Tue Sep 04, 2007 4:22 pm

Dozer,
I have been told that covering the tree roots with soil will likely kill them and I want to avoid that. When I remember how houses in Virginia are built right in under the trees I guess it doesn't apply to all species. I really went to slope the ground gradually up to the house level at the front entrance side and the back where the patio will be. I figured if I did that after the house was built I could manage it carefully and avoid any trees.

Do you think this method will increase my costs noticably?

Thanks
Nick
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Postby dozer » Tue Sep 04, 2007 6:42 pm

You need to decide if you are going to bring in the dirt before or after the footings are put in. From what I was reading before you are thinking about doing the footings first, and have it raised up to the desire height, then bring in the dirt which will be hand moved into the house area. Correct? If you wanted the dirt to slope up to the side of the house, you would bring in at least some of the dirt first and then excavate down when the footing are installed. I'm not sure with respect to the tree root damage, I never heard that putting dirt on top of tree roots will kill them.
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Postby somdet » Wed Sep 05, 2007 8:13 am

I believe that nickcar is correct regarding adding fill to the crown area of a tree.

"Fill dirt frequently is added around existing mature trees so that a level or more visually desirable lawn can be established. Fill dirt changes the ratio of oxygen to carbon dioxide around tree roots and the roots may subsequently die."

http://www.treesaregood.com/treecare/trees_turf.aspx
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