COST FOR PAVING STONE PARKING AREA?

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COST FOR PAVING STONE PARKING AREA?

Postby falangsabai » Mon Apr 23, 2012 7:53 am

I am planning for a paving stone driveway & parking area, bordered with a cement curb. I've checked this site but can not find any current cost info. The total area will be 50 m2, and I want the simple rectangular "stones" that look like bricks. Can someone who has done this give me an idea of what to expect for 1) the cost of the materials and 2)the labor for installation. Idealy we would provide the materials and contract on a "labor only" basis. I realize this will vary with the choice of materials and location, but this will give me an idea for "negotiating". Is the curb always necessary? Any hints or suggestions would also be appreciated. Our "build" is in Phitsanulok.
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Re: COST FOR PAVING STONE PARKING AREA?

Postby Mike Judd » Tue Apr 24, 2012 12:04 pm

As you say you it's going to have cars etc; running over it, the base is going to be the most important part. Unless concrete is the base you need 75--100m.m. of road base which is usually old bitumen road material, this has to be well compacted first to a reasonable level. Hire a portable compacter. Then 50m.m. of coarse sand is screeded to the required level, where then comes the easy bit of just placing the pavers in the pattern of choice, keeping them tight together.If you are doing a square pattern ,no cutting is required but it's best to cement the pavers all along the edge or build a kerb so as to stop any creep of the pavers, with the sand being washed away, Brush sand all over to fill any gaps and that's it ! That is the correct way to lay any type of pavers ,bricks etc; with out cement, it's the base that's the thing, if it was pedestrian traffic only then you could cut back a bit on the base but unless you want to keep re-laying the pavers where the water has maybe laid , that's the way to go.
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Re: COST FOR PAVING STONE PARKING AREA?

Postby cooked » Tue Apr 24, 2012 2:00 pm

When constructing paving we used as a general rule:
Pedestrian only: 15cm base, 3cm Sand, paving stones 6 to 8cm thick. so total excavation depth, 24 to 26cm.
Cars: 30cm base, 3 cm sand paving stones 8-10 cm thick.
Access, even if only once a year, by heavy vehicles: geotextile matting (not absolutely necessary), base 45cm, paving stones 10-12 cm thick. You will probably want to compact 30cm of base in two goes (15cm, compact, 15 cm, compact again and level off + - 3cm). We preferred to use crushed gravel 3/6mm instead of sand , much easier to level off and providing some drainage. 1.5-2% lateral slope to get rid of water is normal, you must plan for drainage. Pulling off the sand to the correct level is the most important stage: we set up planks or iron rails on each side of the area, two guys pulled off the excess sand with a straight edge, a third guy would be adding/removing sand as necessary.
Damage that you see done to paving stones are generally caused by heavy vehicles turning: if the paving stones are not thick enough they will tilt laterally and the damage will get worse each time. Up to you to decide, but something that happens just once a year can make a nice mess of your nice entrance. I have also seen damage done because the subbase had not been compacted before starting. A colleague went bankrupt after having to redo a large parking lot with this problem.
I only ever laid paving stones on concrete once, and will NEVER do it again. If you did, 15cm of reinforced concrete should be ok.
As already mentioned, the edges must be concreted in; if you lay curbing before hand, unless you work with precision you will end up cutting many meters of paving stones/cementing in the gaps.(we all hated doing this). If the paving stones are rectangular, make sure that the joints overlap, maybe you can buy half stones to start/end every row.
Sweeping or watering fine sand into the joints is essential to stop them moving laterally, and sand will also suppress weed growth, a bit.
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Re: COST FOR PAVING STONE PARKING AREA?

Postby sezze » Tue Apr 24, 2012 10:17 pm

cooked wrote:When constructing paving we used as a general rule:
Pedestrian only: 15cm base, 3cm Sand, paving stones 6 to 8cm thick. so total excavation depth, 24 to 26cm.
Cars: 30cm base, 3 cm sand paving stones 8-10 cm thick.
Access, even if only once a year, by heavy vehicles: geotextile matting (not absolutely necessary), base 45cm, paving stones 10-12 cm thick. You will probably want to compact 30cm of base in two goes (15cm, compact, 15 cm, compact again and level off + - 3cm). We preferred to use crushed gravel 3/6mm instead of sand , much easier to level off and providing some drainage. 1.5-2% lateral slope to get rid of water is normal, you must plan for drainage. Pulling off the sand to the correct level is the most important stage: we set up planks or iron rails on each side of the area, two guys pulled off the excess sand with a straight edge, a third guy would be adding/removing sand as necessary.
Damage that you see done to paving stones are generally caused by heavy vehicles turning: if the paving stones are not thick enough they will tilt laterally and the damage will get worse each time. Up to you to decide, but something that happens just once a year can make a nice mess of your nice entrance. I have also seen damage done because the subbase had not been compacted before starting. A colleague went bankrupt after having to redo a large parking lot with this problem.
I only ever laid paving stones on concrete once, and will NEVER do it again. If you did, 15cm of reinforced concrete should be ok.
As already mentioned, the edges must be concreted in; if you lay curbing before hand, unless you work with precision you will end up cutting many meters of paving stones/cementing in the gaps.(we all hated doing this). If the paving stones are rectangular, make sure that the joints overlap, maybe you can buy half stones to start/end every row.
Sweeping or watering fine sand into the joints is essential to stop them moving laterally, and sand will also suppress weed growth, a bit.


Why will you never do the stone on concrete again ? In most parts of Thailand it never freezes so this is not the issue i guess .
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Re: COST FOR PAVING STONE PARKING AREA?

Postby Mike Judd » Wed Apr 25, 2012 7:23 am

What Cooked said to follow would be more than adequate I would think for any situation and any load. The obvious criterion is going to be what sort of ground are you putting this drive way on. Swampy Bangkok or similar type land that is subject to flooding, or reasonably dry and hard ground. I wouldn't think you would put pavers on concrete unless it was already there and you wanted to change the surface.( That would be like doing the job twice)
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Re: COST FOR PAVING STONE PARKING AREA?

Postby cooked » Sat Apr 28, 2012 1:25 am

Hi. Concrete has to be delivered, leveled out and vibrated in pretty quickly, even if you have added retarder. So, a team of guys that know what they are doing (most people don't even know how to use a vibrator) and concrete that doesn't arrive just before it gets dark are required. Joints every 5 meters. Of course if you want to buy a mixer you can do that too, maybe doing one or two 5 meter blocks a day. Concrete is ok as a foundation but I have bad memories about the days when we, at the request of an architect, did 50 meters of driveway like this. Much too much like hard work and pretty stressful. The bloody stuff weighs 2400Kg a cubic meter for goodness sakes. We had to then lay the stones on mortar- not necessary, bloody architects, moan moan.
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Re: COST FOR PAVING STONE PARKING AREA?

Postby sezze » Sat Apr 28, 2012 5:25 am

cooked wrote:Hi. Concrete has to be delivered, leveled out and vibrated in pretty quickly, even if you have added retarder. So, a team of guys that know what they are doing (most people don't even know how to use a vibrator) and concrete that doesn't arrive just before it gets dark are required. Joints every 5 meters. Of course if you want to buy a mixer you can do that too, maybe doing one or two 5 meter blocks a day. Concrete is ok as a foundation but I have bad memories about the days when we, at the request of an architect, did 50 meters of driveway like this. Much too much like hard work and pretty stressful. The bloody stuff weighs 2400Kg a cubic meter for goodness sakes. We had to then lay the stones on mortar- not necessary, bloody architects, moan moan.


I"m thinking of my driveway also and i am looking at all options . 1 of the most looked at options right now is using the cheap granite tiles ( small size is very cheap ) and making my driveway out of this . Now , since those tiles are pretty thin they need to be on a very stable underground . I do not think that compacted grind , sand or something like that is stable enough to do it . 15cm of reinforced concrete is , imho and laying the tiles with mortar will lock them in place . Am i correct ?
Using a compacted sand /gravel base you need pavers of at least 5/6cm thickness .
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Re: COST FOR PAVING STONE PARKING AREA?

Postby Mike Judd » Sat Apr 28, 2012 1:05 pm

It's all about the ground, You could put anything on 150m.m. (6 inches) of concrete slab, in 5mt lengths with the steel near the bottom but Not on or in the mud of the ground as is often the case in Thailand. Rubble and sand for drainage is best under the slab. They don't seem to do the coloured Stamped pattern concrete yet in Thailand) So if it's the paver look you want 50--60m.m. thick pavers or bricks, put down as recommended. Remember it's the base that counts, well prepared with drainage allowed for.
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Re: COST FOR PAVING STONE PARKING AREA?

Postby cooked » Sat Apr 28, 2012 1:05 pm

yes, I have laid granite on compacted base but only in a pedestrian context. I have more often relaid granite slabs onto concrete + mortar because the passage of time (and also, frost) had made the slabs irregular. The mortar is a science by itself; the way I learnt it 40 years ago, we used 'poyasse', sorry, don't know the English for this - pure cement + water. However if you have to take the slab out again for some reason while laying it, you have to throw it back into the mixer and start again. So you may prefer a cement/ lime mortar or buy it in sacks.
I suppose you will buy a jointing mortar, but making it yourself is easy enough, you can find on the internet how to make.
The balls aching bit is cleaning the slabs before the cement has dried. You can kneel down with a sponge and do this. You can let it dry a little (?4 hours or so) and then with a fine spray, a fine brush and lots of patience clean it off. I have a colleague that scatters the same mortar as you used for the joints, but dry, over the slabs, and then brushes it off, but I never got the hang of this.
You can get away with 12cm of concrete also.
Where does the granite come from, please? Do they have other granite products?
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Re: COST FOR PAVING STONE PARKING AREA?

Postby robertkc » Sat Apr 28, 2012 3:06 pm

You asked for costs; here are our numbers from 2 months back in CM:
driveway & parking area = 407m2
( pavers were 140b/m2 plus 10b/m2 delivery & 55b/m2 labour)
we had 173m of curbing @ 55b per 50cm piece including install labour
Total excluding base soil/sand & cement was 100,045b
Hard to give you the exact grand total as we`ve been here a year and added base material & used macros/tractors to spread & pack a few times... but 115,000b is close.
As mentioned in our thread, immediately after install we started the big pond project - around 30 dump trucks rolling through over a 2 week period - some driveway areas did need repair which was a day`s work & we`re happy with the result.
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Re: COST FOR PAVING STONE PARKING AREA?

Postby sezze » Sat Apr 28, 2012 5:33 pm

cooked wrote:yes, I have laid granite on compacted base but only in a pedestrian context. I have more often relaid granite slabs onto concrete + mortar because the passage of time (and also, frost) had made the slabs irregular. The mortar is a science by itself; the way I learnt it 40 years ago, we used 'poyasse', sorry, don't know the English for this - pure cement + water. However if you have to take the slab out again for some reason while laying it, you have to throw it back into the mixer and start again. So you may prefer a cement/ lime mortar or buy it in sacks.
I suppose you will buy a jointing mortar, but making it yourself is easy enough, you can find on the internet how to make.
The balls aching bit is cleaning the slabs before the cement has dried. You can kneel down with a sponge and do this. You can let it dry a little (?4 hours or so) and then with a fine spray, a fine brush and lots of patience clean it off. I have a colleague that scatters the same mortar as you used for the joints, but dry, over the slabs, and then brushes it off, but I never got the hang of this.
You can get away with 12cm of concrete also.
Where does the granite come from, please? Do they have other granite products?


The big shops and cheapest are in Saraburi and surroundings including Bangkok . Siamtak and Silatak are both very big and sell everything from granite and marble . Small pieces go as low as less then 150b /m2 .
I did mail 2 other companies in Thailand for granite and basalt cobblestones of 5cm thickness but that price was way over the top and not consistent ( 1 said 1500 to 2000 per sqm other one 1000 to 1500 only cobblestones ) .
The small pieces are 10*10 till 10/40cm are are about16 to 18mm thick .
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Re: COST FOR PAVING STONE PARKING AREA?

Postby geordie » Sat Apr 28, 2012 8:58 pm

Mike Judd wrote:It's all about the ground, You could put anything on 150m.m. (6 inches) of concrete slab, in 5mt lengths with the steel near the bottom but Not on or in the mud of the ground as is often the case in Thailand. Rubble and sand for drainage is best under the slab. They don't seem to do the coloured Stamped pattern concrete yet in Thailand) So if it's the paver look you want 50--60m.m. thick pavers or bricks, put down as recommended. Remember it's the base that counts, well prepared with drainage allowed for.


They do pattern print mike but its quite expensive ?? and they will only attend for a big job so have minimum order constraints although claiming a willingness to travel ?? its all subeject to ??? i will try and find the name in the forum from previous discussions
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1970&p=22771&hilit=stamped+concrete#p22771
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Re: COST FOR PAVING STONE PARKING AREA?

Postby sezze » Sun Apr 29, 2012 4:53 am

geordie wrote:
Mike Judd wrote:It's all about the ground, You could put anything on 150m.m. (6 inches) of concrete slab, in 5mt lengths with the steel near the bottom but Not on or in the mud of the ground as is often the case in Thailand. Rubble and sand for drainage is best under the slab. They don't seem to do the coloured Stamped pattern concrete yet in Thailand) So if it's the paver look you want 50--60m.m. thick pavers or bricks, put down as recommended. Remember it's the base that counts, well prepared with drainage allowed for.


They do pattern print mike but its quite expensive ?? and they will only attend for a big job so have minimum order constraints although claiming a willingness to travel ?? its all subeject to ??? i will try and find the name in the forum from previous discussions
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1970&p=22771&hilit=stamped+concrete#p22771


I found somebody in Udon to do it but his prices are surely farang pricing . At 650 baht per sqm i wouldn't even give it a 2nd thought ( concrete topping ) .
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Re: COST FOR PAVING STONE PARKING AREA?

Postby geordie » Sun Apr 29, 2012 6:19 am

Its £40-£45 a square meter in uk 3 years ago ? at £14 Thaiand thats not bad especially as you could probably negotiate them down a bit I don,t know if you have seen it done but its labour intensive and the materials are expensive The concrete has fibres in it and an air entrainer ?? plus its a 6mm stone used then you have to broadcast a powdered dye across the whole surface trowel it in then followed by talcum powder to stop the mats sticking its printed then its allowed a night to cure and jetwashed to create a shadow bold effect (depending on pattern.coulor) then two coats of sealant ?? the mats are up to £400 a set and the tools are all suposed to be tungsten or something which trebles the price of your trowels ect this is to do with keeping air in the concrete so it moulds better usually the aim is the oposite you want the air out i did train to lay it but never took it up its ""backbreaking hard work"" also you have a race against the clock out there because the heat will kick the curing in almost as soon as its levelled giving you a very narrow window to print in the pattern
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Re: COST FOR PAVING STONE PARKING AREA?

Postby falangsabai » Sun Apr 29, 2012 7:22 am

Hello everybody and thank you very much. The information about technique and especially about cost is extremely useful. In fact, this website has proven to be incredibly useful in our house project.
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