what kind of quality do you get for 10000 baht/square metre?

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what kind of quality do you get for 10000 baht/square metre?

Postby maggy » Thu Sep 09, 2010 8:51 pm

If you build a house in thailand, what kind of standard do you get if you pay about 10000 baht /square metre?? Anyone here that has built a house with that kind of budget? would love to see pics:)
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Re: what kind of quality do you get for 10000 baht/square metre?

Postby fredlk » Fri Sep 10, 2010 7:43 am

maggy wrote:what kind of standard do you get if you pay about 10000 baht /square metre??

It might be a while before somebody else reads this and shares their experiences with you, but from what I've heard people have told stories of nice houses for as little as 5,500 Baht per square metre which to me sounds amazing. Top-end houses are 15,000 Baht to 20,000 Baht per square metre and so for 10,000 Baht per square metre you should be able to get something quite decent.
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Re: what kind of quality do you get for 10000 baht/square metre?

Postby jazzman » Sat Sep 11, 2010 4:39 pm

Not so long as you think fredlk!

My cynial world view would tempt me to answer this with the rhetorical question 'How long is a piece of string'.

A helpful and intelligent answer would be to refer readers to viewtopic.php?f=16&t=1316 that says it all.

There are really too many very different factors to be taken into consideration. On the extremes, for example, you could have a lousy, cheap construction, nothing straight and true, a sagging roof, and leaking pipes, and put hugely expensive tiles on the roof, gold plated taps in the bathrooms, 15,000 baht toilets in the closets, and imported Indian marble on the floor. You could go OTT and use unnecessary Q-con block, load bearing walls, and RSJ structural elements, and then skimp on the windows and doors and floor tiles, and most likely also on the quality of the electrical components that are going to burn out after 6 months.

In either case you could and up with a house that cost anything between 7,000 and 15,000 baht per m2. Costs vary also if your costs are intended to include the cost of design, development, and other professional, advice, or locally direct hired labour, or a turn-key solution from a housing contractor, or whether the cost is expected to include Western project management and western supervision.

What you want to spend on getting a house built, depends on what kind of house you want that conforms to the lifestyle you are generally used to. If you have a UK salary in excess of 100K quid, for example, you are going to want something much better than you can get for 10,000 baht per m2. If all you want is a bland, typical 3-bed English housing estate type bungalow, and are prepared to use materials that won't drop apart, drop off, or flake off in just one or two years, you can probably get away with 8,000 baht/m2, but not if you are getting a turn-key solution from a contractor - because he will be applying a whacking profit margin on the labour and on the materials.

Houses in the famous series of Thai house plan books that we all know so well, are generally all priced in the books at around 10,000 baht per m2, but if you let a contractor build it for that price, you will be complaining about the quality for evermore. There are some interesting and quite different building stories on this board just waiting to be read and analysed by anyone who needs a first-hand report to base his future project on. There are claims of luxury homes having been completed by CTH members for as little as 6,000 baht, but I know some of them personally, and know how they have tounge-in-the-cheeck twisted their figures to make it look as if they got a good deal. <Dozer 9/12 removed self promotional material>

The bottom lines is, that until you know how big you house is going to be, what level of luxury you want, or whether you want it constructed by a rag-tag bunch of local farmers when they are not tending their fields, or by a turn-key rip-off merchant, or anyother mehod, you won't know if 10,000 baht/m2 for your project is a reasonable cost. You'll only find out by sitting down with your consultant or architect, or by obtaining bids from several builders on a set of plans you have previously bought and had an accurate BOQ done.

As a footnote, some questions to ask yourself are whether the overall m2 cost is supposed to include:

- aircon
- kitchen equipment
- rain gutters
- water tanks and backup pumps,
- fancy stainless steel balcony railing
- wood, aluminium, or uPVC windows and doors - and the type of glazing
- water heating systems
-the number of electric outlet in each of the rooms
-the number and type of ceiling lights in each of the rooms
- flat or recessed ceilings in each of the rooms
- thresholds and transitions
- Western VDE (or equivalent) standard, or traditional Thai style electric wiring solutions
- roof insulation to keep the heat outside
- wainscoting, architraves, other decoration
- wet room bathrooms or unnecessary western style shower cubicles

All these things can have a very significant impact on the final cost.
How to build a $20,000 / £14,000 house and a $???? MOTEL Updated 21 March 09 - with BOQ and costs
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Re: what kind of quality do you get for 10000 baht/square metre?

Postby maggy » Sun Sep 12, 2010 6:30 am

Haha i can honestly say that i really dont know anything about building houses. My girlfriend already own some property so at least we dont have to buy any land which certainly could be a signifcant cost of any house project. I also think that jazzman has some very good ideas, stuff everyone should consider, especially when it comes to dealing with thai people. Im really lucky, my gf has a very nice family, i can trust them about almost everything but you always have to be on your guard in Thailand with some people.When it comes to monetary issues in these smiling parts of the world you have to be a bit cynical to survive or else certain people will take adavantage of you for sure.Anyway im not especially materalistic and even if we can afford a more expensive home, i think a 1-1,5 million bht house will do just fine. I just want a house thats not falling apart like in some thai villages, if the house matches thai middle class apartments(thais who make 20-30 k a month) like i have seen in bkk its ok:)
Last edited by maggy on Sun Sep 12, 2010 6:46 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: what kind of quality do you get for 10000 baht/square metre?

Postby fredlk » Sun Sep 12, 2010 6:44 am

maggy wrote:especially when it comes to dealing with thai people. ........... you always have to be on your guard in Thailand with some people.

That is true also for The United Kingdom, Australia, Sweden, Canada, Peru and Chile. Also for Sudan, Morocco and France. The list goes on.
I don't think Thailand has more thieves and crooks than any other country. I have met more than my fair share of con-men from England and Holland.
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Re: what kind of quality do you get for 10000 baht/square metre?

Postby maggy » Sun Sep 12, 2010 7:16 am

maybe thats true, but in general (im from sweden) i would trust a swedish contractor more because they are not as likely to "steal" my money. Let me explain fredlk, I think the only reason its like this in thailand (and many other poor countries too) is the very unfair levels of income. Even nice people can feel forced to take adavantage of others in order to survive and get some extra cash, just to provide for their families. I really understand that aspect and the world would be a much nicer place for everyone if everything was more fair money wise (especially for all the hardworking poor people that deserve so much better:)

Then of course you are also partially correct, there is always going to be a number of people thats motivated purely by greed, they can be found everywhere on this planet maybe even more so in europe and america.Most people wherever you may live are a lot more good than bad :)
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Re: what kind of quality do you get for 10000 baht/square metre?

Postby fredlk » Sun Sep 12, 2010 7:34 am

maggy wrote:I think the only reason its like this in thailand (and many other poor countries too) is the very unfair levels of income. Even nice people can feel forced to take adavantage of others just to survive and get some extra cash, to provide for their families. I really understand that aspect and the world would be a much nicer place for everyone if everything was more fair money wise (especially for all the hardworking poor people that deserve so much better:)

You are right. The point I was trying to make was that we shouldn't discriminate. :) I am allergic to it. :lol:
Where there is a rich person amongst the poor it will often attract opportunity-seekers. I try to dispel the view which some have that Thailand is filled with untrustworthy people.

Anyway to get back on track, I hope that your question has been answered.
Your first task should be to locate people who have built before or have houses you like in the area you will be building.
And ... good luck. :)
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Re: what kind of quality do you get for 10000 baht/square metre?

Postby MGV12 » Sun Sep 12, 2010 8:41 am

maggy wrote:Even nice people can feel forced to take adavantage of others in order to survive and get some extra cash, just to provide for their families.


In my experience ... limited compared to some as it is ... I have found very few Thais who really set out to take advantage or try to rip you off; maybe I have just been lucky or it's my location in Chiang Mai. Personally I am happy to pay a little extra [it's still cheap!] to someone who really is struggling to provide for a family ... especially if there are kids to educate. That's one of the advantages, as Fred suggested, in looking around your area and if possible employing local labour ... it's easier to find out who has the need and who has the greed. I have employed some at a rate that I know is a little higher than 'the going rate' and later found out that the same person has worked at below the going rate for a local Thai family .... not due to the two-tier system but due to the fact that the Thai person really couldn't afford to pay the going rate. It often balances out and you don't see those workers driving around in brand new trucks or having big TV's delivered. As everywhere in the world ... find where you want to live and immerse yourself in the local community .... buy at the local shops and markets ... employ the local people [maybe not your main contractor but don't feel obliged to let him do/control everything, employing others for some of the peripheral tasks will keep your contractor on his toes] ... it really pays off in many ways.

I don't consider this to be off track and I hope you agree maggy ... it's a synergistic element of achieving what you desire within your budget.

Good luck

“Some days I am an optimistic pessimist ... other days I am a pessimistic optimist”
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Re: what kind of quality do you get for 10000 baht/square metre?

Postby fredlk » Sun Sep 12, 2010 8:45 am

MGV12 wrote:.... who has the need and who has the greed.

I must remember this line. :D
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Re: what kind of quality do you get for 10000 baht/square metre?

Postby dozer » Sun Sep 12, 2010 8:51 am

maybe thats true, but in general (im from sweden) i would trust a swedish contractor more because they are not as likely to "steal" my money. Let me explain fredlk, I think the only reason its like this in thailand (and many other poor countries too) is the very unfair levels of income.
It has more to do with the unregulated nature of things here. There are no consequences. If you are not careful in your search for a contractor you will likely end up with someone who will be a rip off, I have heard plenty of stories. But to Fredlk's point, it isn't a Thai nationality thing, it is the system. If you were to go with a foreign contractor your odds of getting ripped off are the same (or increase depending on who you talk to), the only thing being different is normally the dollars will be higher.
Even nice people can feel forced to take advantage of others in order to survive and get some extra cash, just to provide for their families.
No normally nice people are not the ones taking advantage, and also here again it isn't an income thing. There are very, very many rich Thai contractors who you would need to be cautious with also.
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Re: what kind of quality do you get for 10000 baht/square metre?

Postby maggy » Sun Sep 12, 2010 4:39 pm

i promise to be careful about who to employ on this "dream project ". I totally agree that it is almost a moral obligation to pay a decent fair salary if you hire locals (more than they usually get) , in the end they need to provide for someone too.I really like the unselfish attitude of MGV12 and fredlk,more people from the "rich" part of our world should reason like that. Dozer, i also agree that the already rich contractors, farang or not, are the people you need to be careful with, choose them with caution and remember to draw up a well written contract in english with help from an able and trustworthy lawyer...
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Re: what kind of quality do you get for 10000 baht/square metre?

Postby BKKBILL » Sun Sep 12, 2010 4:57 pm

maggy wrote:remember to draw up a well written contract in english with help from an able and trustworthy lawyer...


Just so you are clear on this if you sign both an English and a Thai contract the Thai contract will take precedence in any dispute.
It's not who you know, it's whom you know.
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Re: what kind of quality do you get for 10000 baht/square metre?

Postby maggy » Fri Sep 17, 2010 3:19 am

thank you BKKBILL for your good advice, is it legal(probably not) to get contracts written in english only,reducing the risk of getting screwed ?
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Re: what kind of quality do you get for 10000 baht/square metre?

Postby fredlk » Fri Sep 17, 2010 5:48 am

I am sure that you will not find a Thai builder who will sign a contract in English.
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Re: what kind of quality do you get for 10000 baht/square metre?

Postby jazzman » Fri Sep 17, 2010 4:43 pm

They most certainly will - if pressed hard enough. Few of them are likely to pass up the opportunity to work for a farang.
I have quite a collection of contracts that have been kindly sent to me by CTH readers and others, from around the country. Over half of them are in English. Always ask any prospective contractor to send a copy of his standard contract along with his bid. If it's in Thai, it's only going to cost you around Baht 1,000 to get it translated - the price of two bottles of mediocre wine.
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