Submersible pump

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Submersible pump

Postby tertim » Wed Jul 27, 2016 4:21 pm

Bought this pump to draw water from my well to irrigate the garden. The water level in the well is only 3 metres below ground but as the level drops to 5 metres the pump just cannot get past 5 metres and the water just stops.
According to the specs it should pump to 14M head! 375W . Absolute waste of money zero chance of a refund.
IMG_20160727_154206.jpg
IMG_20160727_154140.jpg
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Re: Submersible pump

Postby MGV12 » Wed Jul 27, 2016 8:31 pm

Where to start!

Totally the wrong type of pump for your needs. Well pumps need to be good at 'sucking' and are usually not efficient at 'blowing'. The pump you show may possibly provide a 14 metre head from a relatively shallow pond source but will never get anywhere near that from a well .... as you have found out

As for the pump you did buy ... Google search ... https://www.google.co.th/search?q=fujiw ... e&ie=UTF-8 ... not recognised as a Japanese manufacturer; no great surprise.

If you want a pump that will perform a specific and essential function, you would be well-advised to go for a recognised and known brand for the intended purpose ... even then you need to buy it from a supplier that will guarantee that the item is not a fake. Warranties are thin on the ground here, even premium brands will not always provide the level of warranty they would in other territories. A good supplier will however stand by the products they sell ... in writing.

Best advice would be to go to a local pump specialist shop and ask their advice. If that is where you bought the one you pictured ..........................

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Re: Submersible pump

Postby tertim » Thu Jul 28, 2016 6:59 am

MGV12 wrote:Where to start!

Totally the wrong type of pump for your needs. Well pumps need to be good at 'sucking' and are usually not efficient at 'blowing'. The pump you show may possibly provide a 14 metre head from a relatively shallow pond source but will never get anywhere near that from a well .... as you have found out

As for the pump you did buy ... Google search ... https://www.google.co.th/search?q=fujiw ... e&ie=UTF-8 ... not recognised as a Japanese manufacturer; no great surprise.

If you want a pump that will perform a specific and essential function, you would be well-advised to go for a recognised and known brand for the intended purpose ... even then you need to buy it from a supplier that will guarantee that the item is not a fake. Warranties are thin on the ground here, even premium brands will not always provide the level of warranty they would in other territories. A good supplier will however stand by the products they sell ... in writing.

Best advice would be to go to a local pump specialist shop and ask their advice. If that is where you bought the one you pictured ..........................


Hi MGV12
Thank you for your speedy response the reason i bought the pump was that it was labeled as japanese, 14m head, 375W etc but as your research shows it's a fake brand, I bought it at Thaiwatsadu with a 12 month written guarantee so I will try and get a refund!!!!
After doing some research as to the type of pump most suitable I decided on a submersible as being the best choice but obviously not this brand (fake) so i'm a little confused by your reply as not being the correct type of pump, it only has to push the water and not suck as it is already immersed in the water.

Pop kan mai
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Re: Submersible pump

Postby MGV12 » Thu Jul 28, 2016 8:24 am

tertim wrote:
Hi MGV12
Thank you for your speedy response the reason i bought the pump was that it was labeled as japanese, 14m head, 375W etc but as your research shows it's a fake brand, I bought it at Thaiwatsadu with a 12 month written guarantee so I will try and get a refund!!!!
After doing some research as to the type of pump most suitable I decided on a submersible as being the best choice but obviously not this brand (fake) so i'm a little confused by your reply as not being the correct type of pump, it only has to push the water and not suck as it is already immersed in the water.

Pop kan mai


Apologies that my reply was more speedy than clear!

I should have said that the type of pump is not usually used for well applications. I inherited a Yamada [which is a recognised Japanese manufacturer] 400W pump similar to yours. It struggled to get any decent flow when called upon to raise the water more than 3M. Did yours come in a box/with literature? If so it would normally include a performance graph. The max head and max flow shown on the label cannot be achieved together ... as the head increases the flow decreases. That's under test conditions and in the real world even the genuine pumps struggle to meet the performance claims. Pipe/hose back-pressure losses to the point of use then take their toll.

I am no pump expert ... just trying to help. Wherever you buy it might be worth at least having a chat with a store that specialises in pumps ... providing them with the full details of maximum depth to water, distance to point of use, pipe and hose sizes and configurations. They are more likely to point you in the right direction than someone in ThaiWatsadu ... who even if they have received any training it will be from a specific manufacturer to help push their products. Big sheds like TW don't always have the best prices ... except maybe when it comes to fakes that don't perform and yet still have high energy demands.

Good luck with the refund ... you may need to be firm! Surprised they gave you a written warranty.

“Some days I am an optimistic pessimist ... other days I am a pessimistic optimist”
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Re: Submersible pump

Postby tertim » Thu Jul 28, 2016 10:42 am

MGV12 wrote:
tertim wrote:
Hi MGV12
Thank you for your speedy response the reason i bought the pump was that it was labeled as japanese, 14m head, 375W etc but as your research shows it's a fake brand, I bought it at Thaiwatsadu with a 12 month written guarantee so I will try and get a refund!!!!
After doing some research as to the type of pump most suitable I decided on a submersible as being the best choice but obviously not this brand (fake) so i'm a little confused by your reply as not being the correct type of pump, it only has to push the water and not suck as it is already immersed in the water.

Pop kan mai


Apologies that my reply was more speedy than clear!

I should have said that the type of pump is not usually used for well applications. I inherited a Yamada [which is a recognised Japanese manufacturer] 400W pump similar to yours. It struggled to get any decent flow when called upon to raise the water more than 3M. Did yours come in a box/with literature? If so it would normally include a performance graph. The max head and max flow shown on the label cannot be achieved together ... as the head increases the flow decreases. That's under test conditions and in the real world even the genuine pumps struggle to meet the performance claims. Pipe/hose back-pressure losses to the point of use then take their toll.

I am no pump expert ... just trying to help. Wherever you buy it might be worth at least having a chat with a store that specialises in pumps ... providing them with the full details of maximum depth to water, distance to point of use, pipe and hose sizes and configurations. They are more likely to point you in the right direction than someone in ThaiWatsadu ... who even if they have received any training it will be from a specific manufacturer to help push their products. Big sheds like TW don't always have the best prices ... except maybe when it comes to fakes that don't perform and yet still have high energy demands.

Good luck with the refund ... you may need to be firm! Surprised they gave you a written warranty.


Hi
Thank you I appreciate your input.

The pump came with some basic sketches in the box but no technical specs whatsoever, i will try and get a refund but TIT

Pop kan mai
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Re: Submersible pump

Postby schuimpge » Thu Jul 28, 2016 5:59 pm

What you have is a bilge pump. Used to drain water from shallow cellars or cisterns. Well pumps are long and small so that they fit into a drilled well pipe. Bilge-pumps are very cheap but are very questionable in performance and no go for your application.

You could try finding a pump that has a 'depth pumping capacity' of 5 meters where the pump is at the surface. Your typical water table being at 3 meters below, it shouldn't be too difficult.
Cheers
Luc
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Re: Submersible pump

Postby tertim » Thu Jul 28, 2016 7:15 pm

schuimpge wrote:What you have is a bilge pump. Used to drain water from shallow cellars or cisterns. Well pumps are long and small so that they fit into a drilled well pipe. Bilge-pumps are very cheap but are very questionable in performance and no go for your application.

You could try finding a pump that has a 'depth pumping capacity' of 5 meters where the pump is at the surface. Your typical water table being at 3 meters below, it shouldn't be too difficult.
Cheers
Luc



Hi luc thank you for your input much appreciated I've done some belated research and determined that a positive displacement pump would be the best overall choice for my needs.

Criteria as follows.Pump at ground level- maximum suction 7M but mostly about 3M- good pressure minimum 2 Bar flow rate around 40L/min my local shop have many of these type of pumps something like below.
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PompcoPistonPump.jpg
positive displacement pump
PompcoPistonPump.jpg (13.71 KiB) Viewed 279 times
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Re: Submersible pump

Postby pipoz » Thu Jul 28, 2016 7:58 pm

GRUNDFOS submersible well pumps, if you have some spare cash.

Not cheap, but last a long time

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Re: Submersible pump

Postby schuimpge » Thu Jul 28, 2016 10:16 pm

Hello Tertim,
Looks like an old fashioned proper isan pump.
Tried and tested with some modern add on's.
Might not be the worlds most Eco efficient and friendly, but pretty sure it will do an outstanding job compared to the old one.
Cheers,
Luc
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Re: Submersible pump

Postby MGV12 » Fri Jul 29, 2016 1:35 pm

schuimpge wrote:Hello Tertim,
Might not be the worlds most Eco efficient and friendly
Luc


You can say that again Luc

“Some days I am an optimistic pessimist ... other days I am a pessimistic optimist”
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Re: Submersible pump

Postby tertim » Fri Jul 29, 2016 2:59 pm

Thank you all for your input, in future I will do some research before I go shopping!!!!

Pop kan mai
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Re: Submersible pump

Postby schuimpge » Fri Jul 29, 2016 4:45 pm

MGV12 wrote:
schuimpge wrote:Hello Tertim,
Might not be the worlds most Eco efficient and friendly
Luc


You can say that again Luc


Heh, I'm only working for a recycling company..lol
Now if you'd go with a solar power driven setup...
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Re: Submersible pump

Postby MGV12 » Fri Jul 29, 2016 4:54 pm

schuimpge wrote:
MGV12 wrote:
schuimpge wrote:Hello Tertim,
Might not be the worlds most Eco efficient and friendly
Luc


You can say that again Luc


Heh, I'm only working for a recycling company..lol
Now if you'd go with a solar power driven setup...


:)

Sounds good to me as long as Termin isn't a nocturnal irrigator ... that almost sounds like a euphemism :lol:

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Re: Submersible pump

Postby Ians » Fri Jul 29, 2016 9:17 pm

First up, forget everything that has been said so far.
If this pump is rated at 14 metres head and rated correctly, then it should deliver 14 metres whether it's in an open pit, well, sump, boat bilge or your birdbath or bathtub.

if it pumps when the water is at 3 metre but not at 5 then something is amiss. You need to know what the water level is in the well in relation to the intake of the pump, how deep is the well?

Test the pump by placing it in a 44 gallon drum or similar and switch it on, either restrict the discharge hose with a valve or crimp the hose somehow to apply artificial head to the pumps discharge and observe its output, even better if you have access to a pressure gauge, put it between the pump and the restriction in the hose.

3 immediate things come to mind, either the pump is running in reverse , which is impossible with a single phase unit unless it's wired internally incorrectly, or the impeller is loose on the shaft, or there is a major restriction in the pump casing or the outlet.

Pumps are very simple, usually trouble free but dumb beasts and applied incorrectly they don't work at all or not as well as they should.
Luckily it's a 375 watt unit and not a 2000 Kw cooling water recirculation or boiler feed pump - then you would have a real problem on your hands.
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Re: Submersible pump

Postby Ians » Fri Jul 29, 2016 9:36 pm

After thought, what happens to the pump discharge once you get to ground level, where is it pumped to, how far, to what height is it pumped, pipe sizes etc -
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