pumps and well....advice please?

Anything to do with the subject of water or plumbing. Any type of well (hand dug wells, drilled wells, etc.), plumbing (but not swimming pools) or any other discussion related to water.

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Re: pumps and well....advice please?

Postby Ians » Thu May 21, 2015 9:36 am

The Q/H figures given are 20l/m @ 39m head and 100l/m @ 15m head.
Nothing given for suction side capability - would suggest you limit it to 8m maximum.
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Re: pumps and well....advice please?

Postby Cheeryble » Thu May 21, 2015 10:16 am

Thanks for the replies!

Slightly disturbed to hear about these plates so close together and need cleaning.
Is it easy?

Are all the regular types of pump running on this same system as the Pedrollo I uploaded? (speaking of for example the Mitsubishi you sent a pic of)

BTW here is the plate for the Saer pump which also doesn't seem to have the sucking depth

IMG_3225.JPG
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Re: pumps and well....advice please?

Postby Klondyke » Thu May 21, 2015 11:36 am

Cheeryble wrote:Thanks for the replies!

Slightly disturbed to hear about these plates so close together and need cleaning.
Is it easy?

Are all the regular types of pump running on this same system as the Pedrollo I uploaded? (speaking of for example the Mitsubishi you sent a pic of)


Sorry, don't be scared by the cleaning. That was my extreme case when one time I was using such pump for my swimming pool, and so also for sucking the bottom dirt. Normally, the sucking basket protected by a mesh will protect against any much dirt.

As of the sucking depth, ask the seller, and/or ask for an installation instruction.
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Re: pumps and well....advice please?

Postby Klondyke » Thu May 21, 2015 11:56 am

Now I see this web for centrifugal pumps (such you will get in any shop - the first picture on left), and they say: Total suction lift up to 9m

http://www.waterpump-cn.com/index.php?p=36&a=view&r=31

However, it is not self-sucking. It works only after priming by filling in water into the sucking pipe (by a bolted opening on the pump). And if the lower end of the pipe is not equipped by the check valve (that does not let the water out) - or if the chack valve does not keep properly - it would need to prime the pumpe again by each switching on. That's why usually such sucking is made by a piston pump that can self suck - see everywhere in villages (I also have for my drilled well, sucking a rusty water that I transform into a clear waterv fro my swimming pool).

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Re: pumps and well....advice please?

Postby Cheeryble » Fri May 22, 2015 11:42 am

Thanks again for the comments...

If the main uphill pump is fairly easy to clog and we don't use a lower pump/filter arrangement (which obviously we want to avoid) I presume we need an efficient filter in the well on the bottom of the line.....and as big as possible.
I have seen a couple of simple filters for example a blue plastic fitting to go on the end of blue piping, but it's small and the inlets look like (from memory) a half centimetre.

What would the best option to keep out dirt and have enough size so constant cleaning is not required and when it is cleaned it's easy?

Thanks
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Re: pumps and well....advice please?

Postby Klondyke » Fri May 22, 2015 1:55 pm

I do not quite understand all your description. However, I have sketched a simple system how it is usually used. It should be self explaining. Any village chaang papaa will know how to do it.
You should not worry about clogging the pump, a plastic screen wrapped around the sucking basket will protect it.

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Re: pumps and well....advice please?

Postby BKKBILL » Fri May 22, 2015 2:20 pm

I don’t understand use of a Piston Pump or two pumps for that matter in this application seems the disadvantages outweigh the advantages. Here are some comments from one web site

Some Advantages of Piston Pumps
Reciprocating pumps will deliver fluid at high pressure (High Delivery Head).
They are 'Self-priming' - No need to fill the cylinders before starting.

Some Disadvantages of Piston Pumps
Reciprocating pumps give a pulsating flow.
The suction stroke is difficult when pumping viscous liquids.
The cost of producing piston pumps is high. This is due to the very accurate sizes of the cylinders and pistons. Also, the gearing needed to convert the rotation of the drive motor into a reciprocating action involves extra equipment and cost.
The close fitting moving parts cause maintenance problems, especially when the pump is handling fluids containing suspended solids, as the particles can get into the small clearances and cause severe wear. The piston pump therefore, should not be used for slurries.
They give low volume rates of flow compared to other types of pump.
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Re: pumps and well....advice please?

Postby Cheeryble » Fri May 22, 2015 5:13 pm

Klondyke wrote:I do not quite understand all your description. However, I have sketched a simple system how it is usually used. It should be self explaining. Any village chaang papaa will know how to do it.
You should not worry about clogging the pump, a plastic screen wrapped around the sucking basket will protect it.

Image


Hey Klondyke thanks for the efforts!

Going back to the
Andy saying I don't need an extra pump or tank at the bottom can I just do like this?
Addendum
I think I would need the voltage from the float switch at the top tank which I stupidly called a ball switch to go via a level switch in the well so it would never switch on the pump unless the well had enough water

image.jpg
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Re: pumps and well....advice please?

Postby Ians » Fri May 22, 2015 5:48 pm

Your sketch is half ok, you need 2 separate switching systems - 1 at the well to isolate the pump in the event of low level / no water in the well and a separate switching arrangement to stop and start the pump to maintain the level in your storage tank. Very simple to arrange and install.
Can / will sketch up something for you if required - however cannot guarantee a fool - proof system using cheap- charlie equipment. Spend some money on quality equipment and sleep easy - you get what you pay for.

Added : a 3rd switch arrangement will also assist by isolating your house pump in the event of low level / no water in the house tank. In all 4 flow switches will get the job done. There is an alternate for the house pump isolation that I can suggest once you decide what you want to do etc.
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Re: pumps and well....advice please?

Postby Klondyke » Fri May 22, 2015 10:16 pm

Ians, yes, another level switch in the well can be installed, protecting the pump against running empty. However, normally the well is faster supplied with new water than the pump can take out. And you will not pump so much at a time. Has to be checked.

More important is the lowest level switch in the storage tank. It can happen that somebody forget to shut a tap, or a pipe break occurs, then the autom. pump running on empty. It was once my case, nobody at home, so I have installed it. Not at the lowest point, a bit higher. When it happens there is always some water left for the time till it is amended (the switch has to be overriden).

I do not see in your sketch the sand filter, I do not think this can be omitted in Thailand. And beside that, perhaps he will have a problem with an iron in the ground water, a very usual case in the North. Then even that filter would not be enough (but is needed). He would need to see how to get rid of the iron before it comes to the sand filter, otherwise the sand would be clogged very fast within 1 -2 weeks. I had written something about it (my very strong iron water) in a separate thread here, I could write books on this topic.
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