Having "old" water tanks made.....holes/fittings?

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Having "old" water tanks made.....holes/fittings?

Postby Cheeryble » Thu Mar 05, 2015 12:10 pm

Have sourced where we can buy a couple of "old fashioned" ong......the water tanks sometimes seen in villages.....at a very competitive price compared to modern tanks.
They are heavy (I believe hold 1900litres so altogether over 2 tons), but the price is the delivered price (1400 baht!) so shouldn't matter too much (although the ong will have to be on a stand raised so there will be water flow in the event of an electricity cut or breakdown. But I like the look for a small hilltop site we have, and the one at MIL's house has lasted decades with no problem. I would like the two ing to be painted up as an artistic addition!

IMG_3036.JPG


Here's an old one.....nice eh?

IMG_2950.JPG


So what I want to know before we order them made is I've noticed this type usually have holes which i presume are pre made with a blue plastic fitting in each I think.

Is there only one configuration for the holes, or is there a choice we can make before we order which would work better for us.

Facts:
We are going to pump water 100 feet up from our own well to a small hilltop and need it to be stored there ready for use for washing in a small chalet, the kitchen, and for the garden.
Would we just join the tanks making them effectively one or would it be an advantage to filter in one and run via the other?
If we simply run a pipe from one to the other at the bottom to "make them one" don't we need a second outlet at the bottom of one?
(Must look up the configuration I was kindly sent some moons ago but don't think it went into this detail just layout alternatives)
ps notice there are no holes in the tanks in the pic. Guess they add them afterwards? Kinda surprised. Maybe if you don't ask they send with no holes?

Thanks!
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Re: Having "old" water tanks made.....holes/fittings?

Postby Cheeryble » Sun Mar 08, 2015 4:19 pm

OK I got a little information:

Missus was told they make the bottom fitting "si hun" or four "hoon".
I know.....I can check at a hardware shop....but anyone know what this size is?
I want to run a house supply pump from it so it's got to be big enough.....

While we're at it if I was intelligent I'd consider having a bit of pipe inside to the bottom fitting too, perhaps elbowing downwards after a few inches so any "bits" inside must travel upwards to get in the outlet pipe and to the pump. Bit like the outlet inside a septic tank.
IOW help stop bits flowing out. Correct?
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Re: Having "old" water tanks made.....holes/fittings?

Postby Sometimewoodworker » Sun Mar 08, 2015 6:37 pm

Cheeryble wrote:OK I got a little information:

Missus was told they make the bottom fitting "si hun" or four "hoon".
I know.....I can check at a hardware shop....but anyone know what this size is?
I want to run a house supply pump from it so it's got to be big enough.....

While we're at it if I was intelligent I'd consider having a bit of pipe inside to the bottom fitting too, perhaps elbowing downwards after a few inches so any "bits" inside must travel upwards to get in the outlet pipe and to the pump. Bit like the outlet inside a septic tank.
IOW help stop bits flowing out. Correct?


I don't know the usual size but ours has a ½" fitting which would be too small to run a pump as the smallest (100w) is ¾" and all the others are 1" and over. However you should ask if they can make a "nung new" fitting hole as that is 1".
The angled pipe will have the opposite effect to the one you want, it will make sure that you get as many bits as possible.
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Having "old" water tanks made.....holes/fittings?

Postby iammike » Sun Mar 08, 2015 6:48 pm

4 hun is 1/2"

Sorry but the picture is a bit unclear, but I hope it helps

ImageUploadedByTapatalk1425815317.547101.jpg



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Re: Having "old" water tanks made.....holes/fittings?

Postby Bangyai » Thu Apr 02, 2015 9:07 am

Love the look and colour of those ongs. Looking for one ourselves but like you are going to have to get one made since they are not as common as they used to be. The two holes are really just for drainage and cleaning ( lower ) and for a tap ( upper ). In the old days the collected rainwater from the roof could be drunk but apparently some of the newer roofing materials use toxic paint for colouring so no longer advisable. Still, they are the best value storage tanks around and unlike plastic keep your water cool.
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Re: Having "old" water tanks made.....holes/fittings?

Postby BKKBILL » Thu Apr 02, 2015 11:59 am

Cheeryble wrote:OK I got a little information:

Missus was told they make the bottom fitting "si hun" or four "hoon".
I know.....I can check at a hardware shop....but anyone know what this size is?
I want to run a house supply pump from it so it's got to be big enough.....


Here is a little more information on "hun" the measurement. of course it's from CTH. :mrgreen:

http://www.coolthaihouse.com/constructi ... tal-rebar/
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Re: Having "old" water tanks made.....holes/fittings?

Postby Klondyke » Thu Apr 02, 2015 1:46 pm

Cheeryble wrote:OK I got a little information:

Missus was told they make the bottom fitting "si hun" or four "hoon".
I know.....I can check at a hardware shop....but anyone know what this size is?
I want to run a house supply pump from it so it's got to be big enough.....


"Hun" in measurement is a 1/8", "see hun" is 4/8"= 1/2", usual Thaispeak about small sizes of pipes, rebars, wood thickness ("hok hun" = 6/8" = 3/4") etc.

"Hun" also means a share e.g. in company Ltd.
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Re: Having "old" water tanks made.....holes/fittings?

Postby BKKBILL » Thu Apr 02, 2015 5:52 pm

Guess I should have posted the CTH blog instead of expecting anyone to open it. :roll:

Hun: Unit of measure for metal rebar

Posted by on 5/27/05 • Categorized as basic materials,construction

A coolthaihouse reader was interested in the determining the specifics regarding the unit of measure commonly used with rebar – the hun (หุน). I’ve asked the question regarding this unit of measure before and was assured that each hun was equivalent to 3 millimetres in diameter. So a 3 hun piece of rebar should be 9 millimetres in diameter, correct?

Not so quick, it also depends on the grade of the rebar. Light designation (bow เบา) rebar is less expensive and can be formed (bent) on an anvil using hand tools. The diameter will also be less than the associated hun designation, so a 3 hun light rebar might only measure slightly over 6 millimetres in diameter. On the other hand ‘full’ designation (dem เต็ม) should always be 3 millimetres in diameter for each hun designation. Our foreman here says the differential between bow and dem is 3 mm at each hun designation. So, for example, 4 hun dem rebar would have a diameter of 12 mm where as 4 hun bow would have a diameter of 9 mm.

One definition in a Thai – Thai dictionary which refers to measure is this: standard Chinese unit of measure with one hun = 1.5 / 16 inches. This works out to be different again from 3 mm, falling somewhere in between 2 to 3 mm. As a practical matter, 3 mm is the standard used when applied to rebar diameters.

Thanks to reader Doug for looking into this……

Update 28-May. Just bought some 6 hun PVC water line sections. The receipt prints the size as 20 mm. or 3/4 “. Just measured it and this is correct for the inside dimensions. When asked about the discrepancy (why is it not 18 mm which would by 6 times 3 mm?) my foreman says the hun measure isn’t the same when applied to PVC piping.

http://www.coolthaihouse.com/constructi ... tal-rebar/
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Re: Having "old" water tanks made.....holes/fittings?

Postby canopy » Thu Apr 02, 2015 6:33 pm

Easy measurements: 1 hoon = 1/8th inch. Once you get to an inch they stop using hoon and the units are niew. 1 niew = 1 inch so even easier.

What I did is give them the fittings I wanted, stainless steel 1-1/2" outlets and 1" drains seen in the pic below, and let them make the ongs with them. Their standard of 1/2" are too small for many uses, too easily strip threads, and are pvc which should never be used where there is sunlight so it's the wrong material. There was no extra charge in my case and if you think about it it saves them money not needing supply the fittings. One additional thing I recommend that I didn't do is to specify where to put the drain and outlet. As you can see on the picture here, the drain is too high such that it is not capable of draining the ong completely and the outlet is stupidly high meaning a considerable part of the capacity below it is totally lost. It seems Thai's think you are just going to screw a tiny tap directly onto the ong and want space for a bucket under it, then you bail water out manually with buckets from there if and when needed. On the contrary, a drain at the very bottom capable of easily cleaning out all of the water/sludge is far superior and an outlet just a few inches higher so as not to draw out sediments and maximizes capacity is usually more ideal.

ong.jpg
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Re: Having "old" water tanks made.....holes/fittings?

Postby Sometimewoodworker » Thu Apr 02, 2015 8:19 pm

canopy wrote:. As you can see on the picture here, the drain is too high such that it is not capable of draining the ong completely and the outlet is stupidly high meaning a considerable part of the capacity below it is totally lost. It seems Thai's think you are just going to screw a tiny tap directly onto the ong and want space for a bucket under it, then you bail water out manually with buckets from there if and when needed. On the contrary, a drain at the very bottom capable of easily cleaning out all of the water/sludge is far superior and an outlet just a few inches higher so as not to draw out sediments and maximizes capacity is usually more


SWMBO tells me that the position of the drain not being right at the bottom is not a mistake at all. These pots once filled should never be drained completely (unless you want to break them up) as if you do there's a very good chance of them cracking. She has been using them for nearly 40 years so probably knows what she is talking about. Also even if the drain were right at the bottom it wouldn't be able to clear the all or even most of the sludge. That's what kids and small Thai women are for :lol: :lol: her job was to get into the pot every year and scrub and bail the nasty stuff out.
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Re: Having "old" water tanks made.....holes/fittings?

Postby canopy » Fri Apr 03, 2015 8:55 am

Yes, I have heard they should not be allowed to dry out. But I have also been cautioned to never fill an empty tank all at once. So if guidance from the guy delivering them can be used to reliably solve the second limitation then surely it can be used to solve the first as well. All water tanks need cleaned. Making the drain too high makes it useless because the drain can't be used to rinse sludge out with a hose. So why even bother putting a drain on if it doesn't do anything useful? Sludge can only be removed by someone climbing inside and bailing all the remaining water out the top which is almost impossible because the bottom is flat and gets infinitely more difficult to get the last of it. Then repeat again adding water to dilute remaining sediments off the bottom and bail. And repeat, and repeat, and repeat as the water gets clearer until you get fed up with the process and call it good enough and quit. On a properly designed tank, cleaning should be easy and encouraged, not a time consuming and laborious task nearly impossible to get done right. There are many design problems with these tanks that would be trivial for the manufacturer to resolve if they cared even a little bit about their job. I believe just because we live in Thailand is no valid reason to justify everything around us being screwed up when we can simply fix the problems.
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Re: Having "old" water tanks made.....holes/fittings?

Postby Ians » Fri Apr 03, 2015 2:04 pm

Sometimewoodworker wrote:
Cheeryble wrote:OK I got a little information:

Missus was told they make the bottom fitting "si hun" or four "hoon".
I know.....I can check at a hardware shop....but anyone know what this size is?
I want to run a house supply pump from it so it's got to be big enough.....

While we're at it if I was intelligent I'd consider having a bit of pipe inside to the bottom fitting too, perhaps elbowing downwards after a few inches so any "bits" inside must travel upwards to get in the outlet pipe and to the pump. Bit like the outlet inside a septic tank.
IOW help stop bits flowing out. Correct?


I don't know the usual size but ours has a ½" fitting which would be too small to run a pump as the smallest (100w) is ¾" and all the others are 1" and over. However you should ask if they can make a "nung new" fitting hole as that is 1".
The angled pipe will have the opposite effect to the one you want, it will make sure that you get as many bits as possible.


You could run a small low capacity pump from the 1/2" fitting, I would suggest a 1/2" to 3/4" or even 1/2" to 1" fitting , a short run of the pipe size selected ( maybe 12"- 14" to straighten out the flow before the pump inlet) and then adapt to the pump inlet. The loss thru' the 1/2" fitting and pipe run would be marginal and not effect the pumps performance.
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Re: Having "old" water tanks made.....holes/fittings?

Postby Roger Ramjet » Fri Apr 03, 2015 9:46 pm

Bangyai wrote:Love the look and colour of those ongs. Looking for one ourselves but like you are going to have to get one made since they are not as common as they used to be. The two holes are really just for drainage and cleaning ( lower ) and for a tap ( upper ). In the old days the collected rainwater from the roof could be drunk but apparently some of the newer roofing materials use toxic paint for colouring so no longer advisable. Still, they are the best value storage tanks around and unlike plastic keep your water cool.

I think you will find they are more problem than they are worth. In Vietnam the Montagnard tribesmen (amongst others) used them to make rice wine in, but they were ceramic or clay in origin. The reason they had lids to them was to allow the rice to ferment without blowing the "pot" apart and so they could skim the sludge off the top. If they ever cleaned them they were just tilted them on their side and the rain water directed into them from the long huts during a monsoon downpour. The monks also had them scattered around their temples to catch rain water.... the ones that hadn't been hit with small arms fire.
The NVA used them packed full of nails and high explosives to devastating effect, mostly on themselves.
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Re: Having "old" water tanks made.....holes/fittings?

Postby Cheeryble » Mon Apr 27, 2015 11:32 am

canopy wrote:Easy measurements: 1 hoon = 1/8th inch. Once you get to an inch they stop using hoon and the units are niew. 1 niew = 1 inch so even easier.

What I did is give them the fittings I wanted, stainless steel 1-1/2" outlets and 1" drains seen in the pic below, and let them make the ongs with them. Their standard of 1/2" are too small for many uses, too easily strip threads, and are pvc which should never be used where there is sunlight so it's the wrong material. There was no extra charge in my case and if you think about it it saves them money not needing supply the fittings. One additional thing I recommend that I didn't do is to specify where to put the drain and outlet. As you can see on the picture here, the drain is too high such that it is not capable of draining the ong completely and the outlet is stupidly high meaning a considerable part of the capacity below it is totally lost. It seems Thai's think you are just going to screw a tiny tap directly onto the ong and want space for a bucket under it, then you bail water out manually with buckets from there if and when needed. On the contrary, a drain at the very bottom capable of easily cleaning out all of the water/sludge is far superior and an outlet just a few inches higher so as not to draw out sediments and maximizes capacity is usually more ideal.

ong.jpg


Thanks Canopy and thanks to everyone!

Canopy I wonder about metal fittings if the coefficient of expansion of metal so much bigger than the cement worry it won't work into a very slight gap over time.
Doesn't matter?
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