Water Tank Height, Litres per minute, pipe diameter

Anything to do with the subject of water or plumbing. Any type of well (hand dug wells, drilled wells, etc.), plumbing (but not swimming pools) or any other discussion related to water.

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Re: Water Tank Height, Litres per minute, pipe diameter

Postby arranp » Sat Jan 31, 2015 7:05 pm

Roger Ramjet wrote:
arranp wrote:The architect already knows all that, I'm doing the research on the clean energy stuff.

If the architect knows all that how is he going to incorporate all your extra stuff (clean energy) you keep talking about? You should be talking to him at least face to face once a week and giving him your additions. Most architects use CAD programs which in turn do all the calculations straight away.... that's what you're paying him for and it needs to be icorporated on the plans now because you can't get approval for it later. It must be in the plans.


Waiting on the Prelims from the architect should be monday, I agree with you seems to be arse about face, not even had the first meeting with him yet, and he is giving me drawings before looking at my drafts.

Roger Ramjet wrote: But then this is Thailand and a few baht can get you anything......but it won't get underground tanks without the massive piles and it won't get you a builder who understands how to build it, and there lies your biggest problem. And I hope you are saving the rent money because my piles alone cost 600,000 Baht + and you are far away from the "professionals" in Bangkok.


unable to comment on that will take it day by day.

Roger Ramjet wrote: Your friends can have all they like regarding swimming pools, but I bet their pools are "not run on clean energy" and are certainly not self suffiecient.


I didn't say they were, they have a massive stack of air-con compressors in the basement, that consume huge amounts of kWh.

Roger Ramjet wrote: Whatever happened to you calling it "green" the whole time? It costs money to run motors, pumps and other electrical appliances and you can't and won't get approval for a residence in Thailand to run solar. So how are you going to do it?


I've already spoke with the boss at the Thalang (Phuket) PEA metering division. OFF-grid I can do what I want. ON-grid I need to discuss with her the type of circuit breaker. The one thing I cant do is sell electric back to them. I'm not interested in selling electric to them, I don't want to use their electric due to its co2 footprint, I want to store the excess and use it at night.

Roger Ramjet wrote:
arranp wrote:I search but don't find anything straight away, end up going round in endless loops for days...

Are you saying the search engine here doesn't work? It's worked for all of us now for a few years and I even used it just a few minutes ago..... and it worked straight away.


I'm saying it comes back with too much information, show me keywords and the article that shows me the calculations I have just done. BTW I would like to thank you for pointing me to that website.

Roger Ramjet wrote:You need to talk with the architect and engineer, but you aren't.


I know, I'm eagerly waiting with patience for our first meeting and site visit.
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Re: Water Tank Height, Litres per minute, pipe diameter

Postby Sometimewoodworker » Sat Jan 31, 2015 8:26 pm

For all your skills, which seem to be many, you still seem not to understand basic physics. In the UK you pay people to get it right and there is a good mains pressure, here it's up to you.

Water pressure has little to do with flow rate.
Flow rate is independent of pressure.

Using gravity feed for a shower needs a minimum pressure of 8psi and you may be (probably will be) unhappy with the minimum.
To get 8psi you need about 5.8m.

The reason you measure from the middle to bottom of the tank is that you don't want your fill pump to come on every time you use water. So you put in a maximum minimum switch.
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Re: Water Tank Height, Litres per minute, pipe diameter

Postby Sometimewoodworker » Sat Jan 31, 2015 8:37 pm

arranp wrote:
Sometimewoodworker wrote:Your head of 5.8m above your shower head will only give you the minimum 8psi. While showers are supposed to work at that minimum you may not be happy with the pressure.


The calculator shows 5.8m head to be 0.568640087056 bar
http://www.convertunits.com/from/meters+head/to/bar

The following website concurs with my calcs, its titled "0.5 bar working pressure, 15 litres per min cold mains"
http://www.diynot.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=240507

Sometimewoodworker wrote:Also remember that the 5.8m should be the middle to bottom of the tank


See the following exert, there are differing opinions
water pressure will be between 2 to 3-meters of water pressure, which is measured from the top of the water level to the outlet of the water, which is about 1700mm below the ceiling to the bath (standard home built today).

https://www.emergencyplumber.uk.com/plumbing/gravity-fed-water-pressure/

I can see the sense in measuring from half way point of the tank as the water being pumped up and in will be slower than the water going out and down.


You have confused two very different things

Filling a bath (high volume low pressure) and taking a shower (high pressure low volume)

Your 2 metre head with a big pipe is good to fill a bath, but usless for a shower.
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Re: Water Tank Height, Litres per minute, pipe diameter

Postby arranp » Sat Jan 31, 2015 8:42 pm

Sometimewoodworker wrote:For all your skills, which seem to be many, you still seem not to understand basic physics. In the UK you pay people to get it right and there is a good mains pressure, here it's up to you.

Water pressure has little to do with flow rate.
Flow rate is independent of pressure.

Using gravity feed for a shower needs a minimum pressure of 8psi and you may be (probably will be) unhappy with the minimum.
To get 8psi you need about 5.8m.


Noted, and agreed psi and lpm there is no direct correlation, but there is it seems a rule of thumb.

any idea why the following websites concur with my calcs ?

website 1:
found here that 5 psi gives approx 9 litres per minute
http://www.isgb.org/forum/showthread.php?4425-How-to-convert-liters-per-minute-to-psi.


website 2:
The following website concurs with my calcs, its titled "0.5 bar working pressure, 15 litres per min cold mains"
http://www.diynot.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=240507


Sometimewoodworker wrote:The reason you measure from the middle to bottom of the tank is that you don't want your fill pump to come on every time you use water. So you put in a maximum minimum switch.


Agreed
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Re: Water Tank Height, Litres per minute, pipe diameter

Postby arranp » Sat Jan 31, 2015 8:46 pm

Sometimewoodworker wrote:
arranp wrote:
Sometimewoodworker wrote:Your head of 5.8m above your shower head will only give you the minimum 8psi. While showers are supposed to work at that minimum you may not be happy with the pressure.


The calculator shows 5.8m head to be 0.568640087056 bar
http://www.convertunits.com/from/meters+head/to/bar

The following website concurs with my calcs, its titled "0.5 bar working pressure, 15 litres per min cold mains"
http://www.diynot.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=240507

Sometimewoodworker wrote:Also remember that the 5.8m should be the middle to bottom of the tank


See the following exert, there are differing opinions
water pressure will be between 2 to 3-meters of water pressure, which is measured from the top of the water level to the outlet of the water, which is about 1700mm below the ceiling to the bath (standard home built today).

https://www.emergencyplumber.uk.com/plumbing/gravity-fed-water-pressure/

I can see the sense in measuring from half way point of the tank as the water being pumped up and in will be slower than the water going out and down.


You have confused two very different things

Filling a bath (high volume low pressure) and taking a shower (high pressure low volume)

Your 2 metre head with a big pipe is good to fill a bath, but usless for a shower.


Agreed, I have used this only to show the point at which where the head height is measured from ie. the the water level of the the header tank, nothing more.
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Re: Water Tank Height, Litres per minute, pipe diameter

Postby Sometimewoodworker » Sat Jan 31, 2015 9:02 pm

arranp wrote:
Sometimewoodworker wrote:For all your skills, which seem to be many, you still seem not to understand basic physics. In the UK you pay people to get it right and there is a good mains pressure, here it's up to you.

Water pressure has little to do with flow rate.
Flow rate is independent of pressure.

Using gravity feed for a shower needs a minimum pressure of 8psi and you may be (probably will be) unhappy with the minimum.
To get 8psi you need about 5.8m.


Noted, and agreed psi and lpm there is no direct correlation, but there is it seems a rule of thumb.

any idea why the following websites concur with my calcs ?

Luck? :?: :?: or they've used 15mm as a usual supply pipe.

And if it's a rule of thumb then it's because the diameter of the thumb that's been used :lol: :lol: :x

Take a look at

viewtopic.php?f=14&t=4692&hilit=Hitachi

To get lpm from psi you must have diameter of supply and if the distance is significant then you have to add that in as well, as you will have friction losses to factor in.
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Re: Water Tank Height, Litres per minute, pipe diameter

Postby arranp » Sat Jan 31, 2015 9:27 pm

Sometimewoodworker wrote:
arranp wrote:
Sometimewoodworker wrote:For all your skills, which seem to be many, you still seem not to understand basic physics. In the UK you pay people to get it right and there is a good mains pressure, here it's up to you.

Water pressure has little to do with flow rate.
Flow rate is independent of pressure.

Using gravity feed for a shower needs a minimum pressure of 8psi and you may be (probably will be) unhappy with the minimum.
To get 8psi you need about 5.8m.


Noted, and agreed psi and lpm there is no direct correlation, but there is it seems a rule of thumb.

any idea why the following websites concur with my calcs ?

Luck? :?: :?: or they've used 15mm as a usual supply pipe.

And if it's a rule of thumb then it's because the diameter of the thumb that's been used :lol: :lol: :x

Take a look at

viewtopic.php?f=14&t=4692&hilit=Hitachi

To get lpm from psi you must have diameter of supply and if the distance is significant then you have to add that in as well, as you will have friction losses to factor in.


it seems we agree on psi and bar. just the conversion to litres per minute seems to be where the descrepancy is, will work throught the thread and continue searching until I am able to calculate and agreed figure.

Thank you for bearing with me.
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Re: Water Tank Height, Litres per minute, pipe diameter

Postby Sometimewoodworker » Sun Feb 01, 2015 12:02 am

arranp wrote:it seems we agree on psi and bar. just the conversion to litres per minute seems to be where the descrepancy is, will work throught the thread and continue searching until I am able to calculate and agreed figure.

Thank you for bearing with me.


Once again there is no conversation from pressure to flow rate.
You can calculate flow, given pressure and pipe size.

http://bit.ly/1BFeK72

Or

http://bit.ly/16bu4R0

And there is little point in trying to calculate it for a normal sized private house. Just use the biggest pipe (3/4", 1" or bigger) you can, until you get to the point where you have to reduce for your outlets. That plan will get you the maximum flow and pressure, and will reduce the effect of using 2 or more taps or showers at the same time.
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Re: Water Tank Height, Litres per minute, pipe diameter

Postby Roger Ramjet » Sun Feb 01, 2015 1:48 am

arranp wrote:just to give you a bit of insight into myself.

My carreer until I was 40 was an IT software systems engineer, contracted to IBM, Unilever, Kraft, Philip Morris, supporting SAP systems with 5000+ users and planning preventative maintenance.

With the money I've earn't as a contractor, I've bought plots and built houses in the UK and renovated several houses, I've bought and converted pubs into shared accommodation. The largest shared accommodation has 21 rooms, the next 14 rooms, the remaining all have 5 to 6 rooms.

Here is my portfolio http://www.wrexhamrooms.co.uk/ I have built over the last 10 years, currently I have 130 tenants and about 30 properties, I manage this from thailand with maintenance teams and property managers on the ground in the UK.

I do what I'm interested in and pay people to do the normal stuff.

Not to denigrate your skills as an IT engineer, I would like to ask you how many of those projects you undertook involved actually doing the job? You know the thingy where you get up from behind a computer and go out and actually do the work with the builder? Or do you regard that as "normal stuff" and not worth your time and effort. Again I remind you that this is Thailand, architecs and engineers have rudimentary skills at best and most builders live just above the Dark Ages as far as advancement is concerned. If you have no practical experience in actual building then how are you going to show the Thais how it is done.
I was in military operational planning for a number of years which entailed moving the 1st Australian Task Force from point A to point B and you can't do that from behind a desk or by using a computer, you have plans, but you also have support personnel that you rely on for "all the things that go wrong".
I state again you are going about this the wrong way. You need to start with an architect and engineer and sit with them at least once a week. A house is built from the foundations up, not all the added extras down. You may save on electricity by using solar, but you'll lose all that by using batteries to store it. The cost was worked out to a break even point after 15 years.... without any of the batteries being replaced, without solar panels failing etc.
And the one area you haven't looked into is the humidity created by having your water tanks under the house. You are going to be using a lot of extraction fans there..... if the Or Bor Tor will even consider letting you build it like that. I won't even go into ground probes or the rest of the problems like the right type of concrete etc etc etc.
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Re: Water Tank Height, Litres per minute, pipe diameter

Postby arranp » Sun Feb 01, 2015 8:19 am

Roger Ramjet wrote:
arranp wrote:just to give you a bit of insight into myself.

My carreer until I was 40 was an IT software systems engineer, contracted to IBM, Unilever, Kraft, Philip Morris, supporting SAP systems with 5000+ users and planning preventative maintenance.

With the money I've earn't as a contractor, I've bought plots and built houses in the UK and renovated several houses, I've bought and converted pubs into shared accommodation. The largest shared accommodation has 21 rooms, the next 14 rooms, the remaining all have 5 to 6 rooms.

Here is my portfolio http://www.wrexhamrooms.co.uk/ I have built over the last 10 years, currently I have 130 tenants and about 30 properties, I manage this from thailand with maintenance teams and property managers on the ground in the UK.

I do what I'm interested in and pay people to do the normal stuff.


Roger Ramjet wrote:Not to denigrate your skills as an IT engineer, I would like to ask you how many of those projects you undertook involved actually doing the job? You know the thingy where you get up from behind a computer and go out and actually do the work with the builder? Or do you regard that as "normal stuff" and not worth your time and effort.


I am most keen to go out and actually do the work with the builder ( and architect for that matter ), however those things are not now, I would like them to be...

things I've done myself:

laid plumbing pipes for bathroom and en-suite
tiled floors / walls
built ceilings / hung rafters
bricked up walls
installed bathrooms
installed kitchens
installed windows / doors
designed houses and rooms layouts

most of my houses in the UK have 5 showers or more, to supply the showers I use a mains fed indirect hot water cylinder included on the radiator loop to heat the water, showers are fed with hot water which is at mains pressure fed.

there is a whole set of regulations to adhere to with shared housing in the UK. My team is very good and has allot more building experience than myself, this is what they do every day, I have had to direct them on issues specific to shared housing as this was not in their experience. In the UK this type of shared housing is called HMOs ( Houses of Multiple Occupation ).

using a hot water cylinder is expensive, as advised by my team I have since changed to a hot water on demand system using a gas combi boiler to feed 2 or 3 showers and then electric showers in the other 3 rooms, the electric in the rooms are on card meters to the tenant pays the electric for the shower.

Roger Ramjet wrote:Again I remind you that this is Thailand, architecs and engineers have rudimentary skills at best and most builders live just above the Dark Ages as far as advancement is concerned. If you have no practical experience in actual building then how are you going to show the Thais how it is done.


How what is done ? its their job to do the architect and engineering drawings for the house and the platform for the pool/garden. I've no experience in this type of house construction, column / beam.

Things I'm learning about are:

gravity fed water systems
rain water harvesting
solar water heaters
solar chimney
cross ventilation
solar panels
colourbond white metal high solar reflectance with PU form underside roofing.
solartag windows on un shaded areas
white colour building to reflect the sun
introduce colour design where possible to reduce the starkness of all white building whilst maintaining a good solar reflectance
landscaping, use of green plants around the exterior of the home to produce shade
electrolysis to produce hydrogen
hydrogen storage
pem fuel cells to generate electricity
buying or modifying a car run on hydrogen
modifying a motorbike to run on hydrogen

my objective: is to reduce my co2 foot print, teach the next generation by showing my kids to use clean energy, in my house, for my motorbike, for my car, all as working examples.

Roger Ramjet wrote:I was in military operational planning for a number of years which entailed moving the 1st Australian Task Force from point A to point B and you can't do that from behind a desk or by using a computer, you have plans, but you also have support personnel that you rely on for "all the things that go wrong".


interesting challenge, I can only imagine.

the one experience I had that is any where near that is, I moved a company of about 40 people once to a new larger open plan office. I did the plans, desk layouts, electric sockets positions, network sockets positions, telephone socket positions, discussed with my manager and staff to ensure that they where satisfied and gave these to the contractors. The contractors were a little surprised because they actually knew by using the plans what to do, and thanked me. I was 20 years old.

Roger Ramjet wrote: I state again you are going about this the wrong way. You need to start with an architect and engineer and sit with them at least once a week. A house is built from the foundations up, not all the added extras down.


waiting for the architect, but I'm not going to just sit here waiting I've got lots of research to be doing.

Roger Ramjet wrote: You may save on electricity by using solar, but you'll lose all that by using batteries to store it. The cost was worked out to a break even point after 15 years.... without any of the batteries being replaced, without solar panels failing etc.


motivation is not financial, motivation is to move away from using fossil fuel.

I got the break even point to be 5 years for the solar panels and inverter + another 2 or 3 years for the batteries.

arranp wrote:Hello,

Stage 1:
Researching Home Solar System to make residential electric free.

To replace a monthly 7,000 baht bill of electric (normal cost for house with pool and air cons), divide by the cost of electric, 3.98 baht per kWh = 1,759 kWh consumption per month.

Solar hours per day in Thailand is 5 multiply by 30 days per month is 150 solar hours. Take the consumption per month 1,759 divide by the solar hours 150 = 11.74 kWh array is needed.

The is a 40 panel array (250 watt per panel) + an inverter to change the DC to AC. The cost of such an array as per the link is 364,000 baht, so should pay for itself in under 5 years.

http://www.amornsolar.com/index.php?mo=18&display=view_single&pid=1559238


Roger Ramjet wrote: And the one area you haven't looked into is the humidity created by having your water tanks under the house. You are going to be using a lot of extraction fans there.....

the house is built on land sloping from 20m above sea level to 14m above sea level. the garden / pool / house ground level is 20m, then under that at 17m is the car park level, then under that at 14m is the concrete tank level, its all open to the air. I have not considered there being a humidity problem, this is the first time someone has mentioned it. I know the humidity is 85% in the early morning and 55% in the day, my friend has a concrete water tank to harvest rain water directly under the ground floor of his house, he has not experience any problems, at least none that I'm aware of, I will ask them, do you think this is an issue ?

Roger Ramjet wrote: if the Or Bor Tor will even consider letting you build it like that. I won't even go into ground probes or the rest of the problems like the right type of concrete etc etc etc.


I've seen the use of many plastic tanks to hold water, if necessary I will use them instead. If there is a planning issue, I can install them later after the house has been signed off.
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Re: Water Tank Height, Litres per minute, pipe diameter

Postby Ians » Sun Feb 01, 2015 9:31 am

Haven't read the whole thread as yet - just a skim to get a feel of what's being asked and advised.

However, going back to basics, what is the reason for overhead tanks, I see absolutely no advantage of pumping water to o/head tanks to reticulate it back to the showers -- unless of course you feel there is a cost saying, which there isn't

Just pump it once to your shower from ground mounted tanks 1 cold (that's a relative term in Thailand) and 1 solar heated if that's what you intend. The costs of installing o/head tanks and their upkeep would outweigh the costs of installing 2 quality pumps a hundreds times over, also pumping direct to your showers, you can select whatever flow / pressure you want.
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Re: Water Tank Height, Litres per minute, pipe diameter

Postby arranp » Sun Feb 01, 2015 10:05 am

Ians wrote:Haven't read the whole thread as yet - just a skim to get a feel of what's being asked and advised.

However, going back to basics, what is the reason for overhead tanks, I see absolutely no advantage of pumping water to o/head tanks to reticulate it back to the showers -- unless of course you feel there is a cost saying, which there isn't

Just pump it once to your shower from ground mounted tanks 1 cold (that's a relative term in Thailand) and 1 solar heated if that's what you intend. The costs of installing o/head tanks and their upkeep would outweigh the costs of installing 2 quality pumps a hundreds times over, also pumping direct to your showers, you can select whatever flow / pressure you want.


On reflection my friend has installed gravity fed system in his small resort to cater for the many electrical outages. as I will be using solar panels for my electric I would not be affected by these electrical outages, on this basis I could consider pumping direct from the ground level tanks.

Things I would need to consider:

i) the number of showers I would like to simultaneously feed
ii) the litres per minute I would like at those shower points
iii) the number of pumps needed
iv) the kWh consumed by each pump

I would like 15 litres per minute at each shower head, ie. a rain shower / power shower and would capacity to run 2 showers simultaneously + 1 sink tap.

I would need to look at the pump electrical consumption.
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Re: Water Tank Height, Litres per minute, pipe diameter

Postby Sometimewoodworker » Sun Feb 01, 2015 10:06 am

Ians wrote:However, going back to basics, what is the reason for overhead tanks, I see absolutely no advantage of pumping water to o/head tanks to reticulate it back to the showers -- unless of course you feel there is a cost saying, which there isn't

There are excellent reasons. We experienced a couple yesterday.

1) No water from the local supply for about 24 hours
2) No power for about 3 hours

We have had power cuts lasting over 6 hours and water cuts lasting 1 to 2 weeks. With overhead tanks you can get some water.

Another advantage is that you can use a much cheaper and lower powered pump since all it has to do is raise the water between 5 & 20 meters, it doesn't need to have high, or constant, pressure. You may well be able to use a solar powered pump.

So while I still think that a 6m head is too low the overall idea is sound and practical.
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Re: Water Tank Height, Litres per minute, pipe diameter

Postby Sometimewoodworker » Sun Feb 01, 2015 10:12 am

arranp wrote:
Ians wrote:Haven't read the whole thread as yet - just a skim to get a feel of what's being asked and advised.

However, going back to basics, what is the reason for overhead tanks, I see absolutely no advantage of pumping water to o/head tanks to reticulate it back to the showers -- unless of course you feel there is a cost saying, which there isn't

Just pump it once to your shower from ground mounted tanks 1 cold (that's a relative term in Thailand) and 1 solar heated if that's what you intend. The costs of installing o/head tanks and their upkeep would outweigh the costs of installing 2 quality pumps a hundreds times over, also pumping direct to your showers, you can select whatever flow / pressure you want.


On reflection my friend has installed gravity fed system in his small resort to cater for the many electrical outages. as I will be using solar panels for my electric I would not be affected by these electrical outages, on this basis I could consider pumping direct from the ground level tanks.

Things I would need to consider:

i) the number of showers I would like to simultaneously feed
ii) the litres per minute I would like at those shower points
iii) the number of pumps needed
iv) the kWh consumed by each pump

I would like 15 litres per minute at each shower head, ie. a rain shower / power shower and would capacity to run 2 showers simultaneously + 1 sink tap.

I would need to look at the pump electrical consumption.


You missed
v) psi needed at each point.

I don't think your going to find an economic direct pumped solar power system. The tower is more practical.
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Re: Water Tank Height, Litres per minute, pipe diameter

Postby Roger Ramjet » Sun Feb 01, 2015 10:15 am

arranp wrote:I've seen the use of many plastic tanks to hold water, if necessary I will use them instead. If there is a planning issue, I can install them later after the house has been signed off.

You still don't get it do you?
You have no architect, no engineer, no plans, no experience except in an office and telling people what to do and you think that building in Thailand is simple as long as the trademen do their jobs. There are no tradesmen in Thailand. Go to any "College" here in Thailand (take a gun just in case, even the teachers do that) and you'll find half the students asleep, some practicing their next "war" with a rival college and maybe 5% who are actually paying attention and trying to learn. They all know they're going to graduate as long as they get their parents/relatives/friends to pay the fees, so why study. Nobody checks what is taught, nobody cares as long as what is "taught" is by rote and corresponds with what the relevant authority said had to be taught. And when those kids graduate they are like you, they'll sit behind a desk (if they bother to work at all) and tell other people what to do.
And your research is not your research. You have made it your quest to have Coolthaihouse members do all your half arsed research for you because you don't have the faintest clue where to look and what to look for.... or as you claim on one line, you don't have time and on the next line say you have been doing the research for days.... yet members here have found or given all the answers within seconds of reading your posts, and then you still don't understand.
Are you sure your not in that British comedy The Office"?
arranp wrote:I am most keen to go out and actually do the work with the builder ( and architect for that matter ), however those things are not now, I would like them to be...

You don't have one of any of the above. You haven't interviewed anyone, you don't have plans, you have no engineer, you have just a block of land with nothing on it and ideas. If you had read just one building story here most of your questions would have been answered. Try "Max and Bee in Chaing Mai" or just the first building thread by Apetley who tells it like it is with all its pitfalls and problems. Both Max and Apetley were there doing the work and "supervising" and still things happened that could only happen in Thailand.
arranp wrote:How what is done ? its their job to do the architect and engineering drawings for the house and the platform for the pool/garden. I've no experience in this type of house construction, column / beam.

Now you really have me rolling around on the floor laughing too much. "It's their job" but you want to get them out of their office and on your building site..... what are you going to do, threaten them? In Thailand their job finishes when the Or Bor Tor signs off on their plans, which then become your plans with all the mistakes that need correcting. You won't get them on site, This is Thailand, you don't expect them to make corrections that you failed to notice. You don't expect them to come to the site do you? Heaven forbid. It's your build, not theirs will be the reply or speak to your builder I'm busy. Or that's what you wanted, not my problem.
You have a distorted view of Thai architecs and engineers. The only really qualified engineer that might come is the Or Bor Tor and unless it is to ask for money or the piss-up at the end, it will be to close you down. And you can't appeal. There are no rules and regulations here except Rafferty's Rules and what the local mafia boss says.
arranp wrote:I moved a company of about 40 people once to a new larger open plan office.

:lol: :lol: :lol: I won't bore you with details, but a Task Force has an Infantry Battalion 1,300 men, a Medium Artillery Regiment, a Tank or APC Regiment, a Field Hospital and Field Workshop etc etc etc and not only does all their equipment go with them it has to go in Order of Battle and you can't disrupt civilian traffic. Think about it. In order.
Think of where you are going to refuel, where the army is going to stay on the move, how to avoid accidents with civilians, speeds allowed. It is all done in order, the first being the reconnaissance of the route, weighing bridges, coordinating with States and Councils. The list is endless, but you must start at the beginning, not as you are doing, starting at the end.
arranp wrote:I got the break even point to be 5 years for the solar panels and inverter + another 2 or 3 years for the batteries.

I hate to dissolution you but there is a complete thread on this that you didn't read, instead you started a new one, which is why I'm a little peeved because it means that if you didn't read that thread you don't know how to use a simple search engine, and if you did read it, you'd know that not only is what you postulate hogwash, but will also take far longer.
One member here used solar....illegally because he's "up country", but he didn't used batteries because it defeats the cost savings. But it was discussed in great detail and a lot of members with expertise donated their time and knowledge writing about it. I would suggest you read that thread and use the search engine.
The rest of your "research" material can be found by using the search engine, it has been covered in great depth already.
I lurked for over 2 years. I read every thread. I politely suggest you do the same and you'll have all the answers.
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Roger Ramjet
 
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