Why use electric water heaters in Thailand

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Why use electric water heaters in Thailand

Postby arranp » Sun Jan 25, 2015 9:57 am



is it an option it fill up an insulated tank during the day for use in the evening and mornings ?
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Re: Why use electric water heaters in Thailand

Postby thailazer » Sun Jan 25, 2015 1:53 pm

The electric water heater is the dominant expense on our electric bill. 6000 watts when it is running and if you add up the times for three people to shower, you can quickly calculate the expense. Solar water heaters make a lot of expense in Thailand, but the commercial offerings are 50,000 baht plus. You do need the storage tank the commercial units offer so it is a good way to go and the payback is usually less than a year. You could easily cob up a bunch of hose out there but I think the commercially available units probably will work a lot better in the long run.
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Re: Why use electric water heaters in Thailand

Postby Sometimewoodworker » Sun Jan 25, 2015 2:32 pm

thailazer wrote:The electric water heater is the dominant expense on our electric bill. 6000 watts when it is running and if you add up the times for three people to shower, you can quickly calculate the expense. Solar water heaters make a lot of expense in Thailand, but the commercial offerings are 50,000 baht plus. You do need the storage tank the commercial units offer so it is a good way to go and the payback is usually less than a year. You could easily cob up a bunch of hose out there but I think the commercially available units probably will work a lot better in the long run.

The thing with commercial units is they are all designed for much higher latitudes than Thailand. So they are way over engineered for Thailand, so overpriced for what is needed.

You don't need a unit that will give a 70degree increase in water temperature when the air temperature is 10degrees.

Units like the one under will set you back between 5,000 and 10,000 with virtually ฿0 running costs. They can easily give water at over 50 degrees.

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Re: Why use electric water heaters in Thailand

Postby schuimpge » Sun Jan 25, 2015 4:08 pm

There's some to say for DIY heaters, but the problem with them is that you need a very powerful pump as the friction will be very high and pump will use substantial extra energy to overcome that friction.
Commercial units are expensive, but after running mine for 3/4 of a year now, feeding it from a tanks with 12v booster pump that runs from a 12v solar panel/battery, I'm very happy with the results.
Total installation cost for the combo was around 50-55k, (excluding the water tower). The house has no normal pump running in it, all is done by one 120w panel and the rain shower gives very good volume. (i limited the booster pump to 5A as it was way too powerful at normal running, splashing water all around the sink).
Since I have two houses (the new one is my workshop and my brother lives there), my 'first house' where I live will get the same setup later this year. Will give me a good idea of savings as the old heater will go out.

Cheers,
Luc
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Re: Why use electric water heaters in Thailand

Postby Sometimewoodworker » Sun Jan 25, 2015 5:15 pm

schuimpge wrote:There's some to say for DIY heaters, but the problem with them is that you need a very powerful pump as the friction will be very high and pump will use substantial extra energy to overcome that friction.

No circulation pump needed for the hot tank just use big enough pipe. It's the same as older style central heating systems that didn't need a pump.They are both convection systems.

The only pump needed is to keep the tank full and many people already have one. Depending on the hight of the tank you may want a booster for your shower or kitchen
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Re: Why use electric water heaters in Thailand

Postby schuimpge » Sun Jan 25, 2015 6:22 pm

Mine doesn't use a circulation pump also. Commercial, 130 liter tank and 12 heating elements. Including delivery it came to 39-40k. DIY is interesting if you have enough space, for me it wouldn't work as I can only put these things on the roof. Difficult to access.
My ROi? Hoping for about 8-10 years, I have a backup heater installed, but has never been used yet, so that might help getting the 8 years. But what I still find really satisfying is that I don't use the grid at all to run it. Smiling about that every single time again.
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Re: Why use electric water heaters in Thailand

Postby thailazer » Sun Jan 25, 2015 9:14 pm

schuimpge wrote:Mine doesn't use a circulation pump also. Commercial, 130 liter tank and 12 heating elements. Including delivery it came to 39-40k. DIY is interesting if you have enough space, for me it wouldn't work as I can only put these things on the roof. Difficult to access.
My ROi? Hoping for about 8-10 years, I have a backup heater installed, but has never been used yet, so that might help getting the 8 years. But what I still find really satisfying is that I don't use the grid at all to run it. Smiling about that every single time again.

You are ahead of us on solar and solar pumping. Regarding the DIY, 100 meters of 32mm diameter HDPE coiled up on the roof would not take up too much space, but I wonder how long the plastic would last in the sun? Painting it with black latex paint would work I suppose to protect it from the UV, and you could always replace it every 4-5 years. At any rate, 100 meters of that pipe would have close to the capacity of your tank.

Friend down in Sarapi in Chiang Mai built a rectangular steel tank over a window that he heated his water with. He had to put in a mixer valve as the water was way to hot to shower in.
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Re: Why use electric water heaters in Thailand

Postby Sometimewoodworker » Sun Jan 25, 2015 11:56 pm

schuimpge wrote:Mine doesn't use a circulation pump also. Commercial, 130 liter tank and 12 heating elements. Including delivery it came to 39-40k. DIY is interesting if you have enough space, for me it wouldn't work as I can only put these things on the roof. Difficult to access.
My ROi? Hoping for about 8-10 years, I have a backup heater installed, but has never been used yet, so that might help getting the 8 years. But what I still find really satisfying is that I don't use the grid at all to run it. Smiling about that every single time again.

Putting the coiled pipe on the roof is certainly one way to go. It doesn't need to be set the way shown in my linked video. That insulation is in Katmando and so needs to be more efficient than one here, they have really cold winters!.

Depending on your expertise and the tank you use I would think that the cost would be under ฿10,000 installed so you would be looking at an ROI of under 3 years, specially if you factor in the kitchen use. I think that the smile factor could be high.

As to how long the pipe will last, while I have no information about the UV stability, Global keeps it's stock outside in full sun so it's life will be likely to be a lot longer than the ROI time.

On a side note I'm hoping to start using some of the LDPE to run a water supply for SWMBO's garden use so we may get some information from that.
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Re: Why use electric water heaters in Thailand

Postby schuimpge » Mon Jan 26, 2015 1:14 am

thailazer wrote:You are ahead of us on solar and solar pumping. Regarding the DIY, 100 meters of 32mm diameter HDPE coiled up on the roof would not take up too much space, but I wonder how long the plastic would last in the sun? Painting it with black latex paint would work I suppose to protect it from the UV, and you could always replace it every 4-5 years. At any rate, 100 meters of that pipe would have close to the capacity of your tank.

Friend down in Sarapi in Chiang Mai built a rectangular steel tank over a window that he heated his water with. He had to put in a mixer valve as the water was way to hot to shower in.


100 meters of 32mm diameter pipe close to a 130l tank? Would that not be closer to like 48 liters in that hose?
But yes, the system itself is perfect for Thailand. But to do that properly, you should enclose it in a box, black painted and with a glass cover. What I would wonder about is the effectiveness in the winter old months, with a family using it.. (or clouded/rainy days). I guess you would really need a storage tank for the hot water.
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Re: Why use electric water heaters in Thailand

Postby Sometimewoodworker » Mon Jan 26, 2015 9:53 am

schuimpge wrote:
thailazer wrote:You are ahead of us on solar and solar pumping. Regarding the DIY, 100 meters of 32mm diameter HDPE coiled up on the roof would not take up too much space, but I wonder how long the plastic would last in the sun? Painting it with black latex paint would work I suppose to protect it from the UV, and you could always replace it every 4-5 years. At any rate, 100 meters of that pipe would have close to the capacity of your tank.

Friend down in Sarapi in Chiang Mai built a rectangular steel tank over a window that he heated his water with. He had to put in a mixer valve as the water was way to hot to shower in.


100 meters of 32mm diameter pipe close to a 130l tank? Would that not be closer to like 48 liters in that hose?
But yes, the system itself is perfect for Thailand. But to do that properly, you should enclose it in a box, black painted and with a glass cover. What I would wonder about is the effectiveness in the winter old months, with a family using it.. (or clouded/rainy days). I guess you would really need a storage tank for the hot water.


The black box and glass cover would be great if you have low air temperature. My guess is that here you probably don't want that and that you really want some inefficientcy in the collection to avoid overheating the pipe. I will be using an insulated storage tank when I build our system.
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Re: Why use electric water heaters in Thailand

Postby schuimpge » Mon Jan 26, 2015 2:09 pm

Look forward to pictures and results from that. Very interested to see that build.
I do have some experience with the system though. Last year's cold period, I tried everything to keep my pond at work above 21'C. Ended up with a pump, and many meters of hose on top of the car park.
Biggest problem was flow and temperature not nearly as high as expected...
Need to get back to Thailand to get some pictures of it, in Holland right now for funeral and seething estate of my mom.
Cheers,
Luc
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Re: Why use electric water heaters in Thailand

Postby Sometimewoodworker » Mon Jan 26, 2015 3:47 pm

schuimpge wrote:Look forward to pictures and results from that. Very interested to see that build.
I do have some experience with the system though. Last year's cold period, I tried everything to keep my pond at work above 21'C. Ended up with a pump, and many meters of hose on top of the car park.
Biggest problem was flow and temperature not nearly as high as expected...
Need to get back to Thailand to get some pictures of it, in Holland right now for funeral and seething estate of my mom.
Cheers,
Luc

I'm sorry to hear of your breavment. Unfortunately it happens to most of us.

I will be very intrested to see some pictures and get more details of sizes of pipe and volumes of water involved.

I guess that domestic use will be much lower volume than you needed and if you include an insulated tank you will have a good temperature without the box and glass. Time, or someone who has been there and done that, will tell.
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Re: Why use electric water heaters in Thailand

Postby schuimpge » Tue Jan 27, 2015 2:52 pm

Sometimewoodworker wrote:I'm sorry to hear of your breavment. Unfortunately it happens to most of us.


Appreciate it, yes indeed, at some point in life you become the 'oldest generation'. It's a strange realization though..

Sometimewoodworker wrote: I will be very intrested to see some pictures and get more details of sizes of pipe and volumes of water involved.

I guess that domestic use will be much lower volume than you needed and if you include an insulated tank you will have a good temperature without the box and glass. Time, or someone who has been there and done that, will tell.


I am sure from the many people who've done this that in Thailand is will absolutely work. Would have liked to do it for domestic water, but as my roof is hard to access and cement/fibre board (though with PU-foam backing), I decided against it.
Typically, a one-story flat roof garage or shed would be ideal for this... If even seen a guy in the US use this to heat his outside fish tank in the winter.. (with glass box)
Cheers,
Luc
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Re: Why use electric water heaters in Thailand

Postby arranp » Wed Jan 28, 2015 9:12 pm

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