Bore Hole and House Supply

Anything to do with the subject of water or plumbing. Any type of well (hand dug wells, drilled wells, etc.), plumbing (but not swimming pools) or any other discussion related to water.

Moderators: Sometimewoodworker, MGV12, BKKBILL, pattayapope

Bore Hole and House Supply

Postby Mikos » Tue Aug 26, 2014 12:02 pm

My first posting although I have been lurking for a while. Please be gentle and also bear in mind that I am no builder. So simple is best for me!

A bit of background first:

We have finally started a build North of Phetchabun just off route 21. The plot is just over 2/3rd of a Rai on a spacious and well designed/landscaped private development. No plots are less than .5 Rai. The house is two storey although initially the lower level will not have rooms.

I identified quite early on when purchasing the land that the water supply to the development was inadequate and very expensive(฿25 per unit). It is supplied from a private bore hole owned by the developer and delivers an extremely low pressure to our site. No chance of Tetsaban supply either.

With this in mind I decided that I would like my own independent water supply installed before the builders started to use a lot of water. I found a local driller from Lom Sak and agreed a price for labour only, with me supplying pump, piping etc. For a 2" bore he wanted ฿17,000 and a 3" for ฺ฿25,000 which I thought was quite reasonable. No water, no charge.
I reckon the final cost will be ฿35-37000 given that the pump is ฿7,500!

The drilling team hit water at 45m but were not happy so went on to an eventual well depth of 70m. The well is now lined, with a submersible pump installed. It pumps water great. The water is quite clean but has a little colour(possibly sand), however I am assured it will get better. The driller has "jury rigged" a simple on/off switch and control box so that water may be drawn from the well for my wife to water the trees and more importantly so the builders do not have to use the expensive on site supply.

My questions:

1. I would like to know the best set up to ensure a good supply of pressurised water from the bore to all the outlets in our new home when it is finished?
2. Can you run water directly from bore to outlets in house?
3. Could you run from the bore to a holding tank and then pump from tank to home(using second pump)?
4. If yes to 3 above is it more cost effective than a pressure tank setup(describe below)?
4. At what point in construction do my builders need to install any additional equipment?

A couple of thoughts from me.

To my mind the submersible pump seems to be either on or off and I don't fancy walking down the garden everytime I want water in the house!

I have read several posts here in this section of the forum and took note on pressure tanks, not that I really understand them.

This diagramhttp://www.coolthaihouse.com/forum/download/file.php?id=24574&mode=view seems to suggest I need a similar set up.

This topic http://www.coolthaihouse.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=4573 also provided an insight.

Links to any other reading material would be appreciated as would your expert knowledge on the subject. Plus any other questions I should be asking!

Not sure if this is allowed under forum rules but here is a link to my web-site http://www.thaihousebuild.thailand-blogs.com covering the build it contains info on costs etc along with photos which might be of interest to anyone in a similar postion.(Mods please remove if inappropriate)
Mikos
 
Posts: 11
Joined: Wed Sep 12, 2012 12:57 am
Location: Phetchabun Province Thailand

Re: Bore Hole and House Supply

Postby Sometimewoodworker » Tue Aug 26, 2014 3:57 pm

Welcome Mikos

My opinion, and the way we will build, is that the well pump should feed at least 1 tank at a high enough elevation to supply water when the power is off. In our village this happens almost every time it rains and there are power cuts of up to 4 hours at other random times.

Some will claim that a pressure tank will be enough and if you have a good power supply it may be, we don't so for us it isn't.

Our plan is to have a small, 500 litre may be, tank just under the roof. This should be enough to feed the toilets and washing up water it may even provide a low power shower on the ground floor. We are going to look into a low voltage solar powered water pump to help the pressure.
Sometimewoodworker
 
Posts: 1880
Joined: Wed Sep 19, 2007 1:22 pm
Location: Non Sa-At / Tokyo

Re: Bore Hole and House Supply

Postby Mikos » Tue Aug 26, 2014 7:32 pm

Sometimewoodworker wrote:Welcome Mikos

My opinion, and the way we will build, is that the well pump should feed at least 1 tank at a high enough elevation to supply water when the power is off. In our village this happens almost every time it rains and there are power cuts of up to 4 hours at other random times.

Some will claim that a pressure tank will be enough and if you have a good power supply it may be, we don't so for us it isn't.

Our plan is to have a small, 500 litre may be, tank just under the roof. This should be enough to feed the toilets and washing up water it may even provide a low power shower on the ground floor. We are going to look into a low voltage solar powered water pump to help the pressure.


Great, many thanks. I had not considered brownouts. We get plenty here especially at the start of the rainy season as I live a fairly rural lifestyle. Although I have not checked if this effects the development. I currently rent 2km from the plot so probably the same.

I like the idea of a (roof) tank and your mention of the solar powered pump. Would be interested what you find out about this. We have the usual suspects(stores) in Phetchabun but I usually only go there when I specifically need something that the local shops cannot supply. Can't stand the staff at the likes of Home Pro-they know even less than me!
Mikos
 
Posts: 11
Joined: Wed Sep 12, 2012 12:57 am
Location: Phetchabun Province Thailand

Re: Bore Hole and House Supply

Postby Ians » Wed Aug 27, 2014 8:38 pm

My suggestion is a 2 / 3000 litre house tank with float level control incorporated into the switch board/ control panel to activate the bore pump on / off, a separate house pressure pump with either pressure tank or flow/pressure activated for house demand. Remember it all should be correctly earthed with necessary electrical protection for over current and earth leakage etc.

Whether you mount it at ground level or elevated is your call based on likely power failures / brown outs etc. either way is ok and can be handled with most pressure pumps.

You're correct about pump knowledge at most "hardware" stores and some of the "experts" are also pretty dodgy, if you need any assistance just give us a call here.
User avatar
Ians
 
Posts: 930
Joined: Thu Apr 24, 2008 11:38 am
Location: Phitsanulok

Re: Bore Hole and House Supply

Postby Mikos » Thu Aug 28, 2014 9:09 am

Ians wrote:My suggestion is a 2 / 3000 litre house tank with float level control incorporated into the switch board/ control panel to activate the bore pump on / off, a separate house pressure pump with either pressure tank or flow/pressure activated for house demand. Remember it all should be correctly earthed with necessary electrical protection for over current and earth leakage etc.

Whether you mount it at ground level or elevated is your call based on likely power failures / brown outs etc. either way is ok and can be handled with most pressure pumps.

You're correct about pump knowledge at most "hardware" stores and some of the "experts" are also pretty dodgy, if you need any assistance just give us a call here.


Many thanks.

I think I understand, lack of tech knowledge on my part is my problem, not your explanation, which is clear enough. "House pressure pump?" Is this what I might refer to as a free standing pump unit that pumps from a holding tank to the house outlets?

I now understand pressure tanks, I think, although their capacity seems small compared to normal water storage tanks.

Fortunately construction is at a very early stage so I have some time to get this right. The bore itself is performing fine and starting to clear nicely as I pump out a few hundred litres each day.

I would actually like to get the water tested. So I can see if filtration is necessary etc. No intention of drinking it!!

I wonder do you or any other correspondents have a suggestion where this can be done? I live in Phetchabun Province.
Mikos
 
Posts: 11
Joined: Wed Sep 12, 2012 12:57 am
Location: Phetchabun Province Thailand

Re: Bore Hole and House Supply

Postby Sometimewoodworker » Thu Aug 28, 2014 7:08 pm

Mikos wrote:
Ians wrote:My suggestion is a 2 / 3000 litre house tank with float level control incorporated into the switch board/ control panel to activate the bore pump on / off, a separate house pressure pump with either pressure tank or flow/pressure activated for house demand. Remember it all should be correctly earthed with necessary electrical protection for over current and earth leakage etc.

Whether you mount it at ground level or elevated is your call based on likely power failures / brown outs etc. either way is ok and can be handled with most pressure pumps.

You're correct about pump knowledge at most "hardware" stores and some of the "experts" are also pretty dodgy, if you need any assistance just give us a call here.


Many thanks.

I think I understand, lack of tech knowledge on my part is my problem, not your explanation, which is clear enough. "House pressure pump?" Is this what I might refer to as a free standing pump unit that pumps from a holding tank to the house outlets?

I now understand pressure tanks, I think, although their capacity seems small compared to normal water storage tanks.

Fortunately construction is at a very early stage so I have some time to get this right. The bore itself is performing fine and starting to clear nicely as I pump out a few hundred litres each day.

I would actually like to get the water tested. So I can see if filtration is necessary etc. No intention of drinking it!!

I wonder do you or any other correspondents have a suggestion where this can be done? I live in Phetchabun Province.


To be more clear on our plans, which may be usefull to you.
We intend to have a bored well mostly used for garden and house but probably not for drinking or cooking. This will feed some ground level storage tanks and if we have excess our fish pools, we will also have at least 6,000 Liters of rain water storage at ground level, depending on water quality from the well. We will have an immediate use 500 litre tank in the roof this will be supplied from the ground level storage by a simple cheap pump controlled by a max/min float switch. That tank will probably supply a Mitsubishi EP series or a Grundfos (the Grundfos has a higher pressure) pump.

If you get a Mitsubishi pump then if you want heated showers you need the EP series, constant pressure, not a WP series, well pump. You need to be careful about sizing an external pressure tank to the pump you have, bigger is bigger and more expensive not better.

There is excelent information over on ThaiVisa in the DIY housing forum.
Sometimewoodworker
 
Posts: 1880
Joined: Wed Sep 19, 2007 1:22 pm
Location: Non Sa-At / Tokyo

Re: Bore Hole and House Supply

Postby Mikos » Fri Aug 29, 2014 12:42 pm

To be more clear on our plans, which may be usefull to you.
We intend to have a bored well mostly used for garden and house but probably not for drinking or cooking. This will feed some ground level storage tanks and if we have excess our fish pools, we will also have at least 6,000 Liters of rain water storage at ground level, depending on water quality from the well. We will have an immediate use 500 litre tank in the roof this will be supplied from the ground level storage by a simple cheap pump controlled by a max/min float switch. That tank will probably supply a Mitsubishi EP series or a Grundfos (the Grundfos has a higher pressure) pump.

If you get a Mitsubishi pump then if you want heated showers you need the EP series, constant pressure, not a WP series, well pump. You need to be careful about sizing an external pressure tank to the pump you have, bigger is bigger and more expensive not better.

There is excelent information over on ThaiVisa in the DIY housing forum.


Thank you. I understand that OK.

Just one query you say "You need to be careful about sizing an external pressure tank to the pump you have, bigger is bigger and more expensive not better." I guess here you are referring to the submersible well pump? I have the tech spec for my pump so presumably a supplier(or even me) can calculate the correct size of pressure tank from that data?

You also mention water quality.

Do you know the procedure to get it tested in Thailand. Where to go and what to expect regarding a report. Appreciate this may vary from province to province.

Thanks for link to Thai Visa DIY forum. Already a member, but I lurk since I find here more supportive. :D
Mikos
 
Posts: 11
Joined: Wed Sep 12, 2012 12:57 am
Location: Phetchabun Province Thailand

Re: Bore Hole and House Supply

Postby Sometimewoodworker » Fri Aug 29, 2014 1:59 pm

Mikos wrote:
To be more clear on our plans, which may be usefull to you.
We intend to have a bored well mostly used for garden and house but probably not for drinking or cooking. This will feed some ground level storage tanks and if we have excess our fish pools, we will also have at least 6,000 Liters of rain water storage at ground level, depending on water quality from the well. We will have an immediate use 500 litre tank in the roof this will be supplied from the ground level storage by a simple cheap pump controlled by a max/min float switch. That tank will probably supply a Mitsubishi EP series or a Grundfos (the Grundfos has a higher pressure) pump.

If you get a Mitsubishi pump then if you want heated showers you need the EP series, constant pressure, not a WP series, well pump. You need to be careful about sizing an external pressure tank to the pump you have, bigger is bigger and more expensive not better.

There is excelent information over on ThaiVisa in the DIY housing forum.


Thank you. I understand that OK.

Just one query you say "You need to be careful about sizing an external pressure tank to the pump you have, bigger is bigger and more expensive not better." I guess here you are referring to the submersible well pump? I have the tech spec for my pump so presumably a supplier(or even me) can calculate the correct size of pressure tank from that data?

You also mention water quality.

Do you know the procedure to get it tested in Thailand. Where to go and what to expect regarding a report. Appreciate this may vary from province to province.

Thanks for link to Thai Visa DIY forum. Already a member, but I lurk since I find here more supportive. :D


With sizing a pressure tank the first point is that we won't need one as we will feed ground level storage and have high level immediate use storage. The Mitsubishi EP have an accumulator and the WP sit on a pressure tank, they are for instant use supply. You can use a well pump with no storage tank and a pressure tank, many US installations use this system. We will not because of the interment power supply.

The second point a pressure tank is it's use to prevent rapid cycling of the pump. Again we won't need that as max/min float switches take care of that with storage tanks and the EP accumulator takes care of that at point of use.

The third point with a pressure tank is that some pumps can't work with them.

Take a look at the TV threads there is a very good poster who has more knowledge than I do.

As for water first contact is the Amphur, then I would try a water company, then a university. But a search here or on TV should give the answer.
Sometimewoodworker
 
Posts: 1880
Joined: Wed Sep 19, 2007 1:22 pm
Location: Non Sa-At / Tokyo

Re: Bore Hole and House Supply

Postby Mikos » Sat Aug 30, 2014 10:43 am

Appreciate the update. I think I am starting to get the hang of it all now. Will follow your advice regarding further research. Will also post results of getting water tested. I might start at the Tetsaban as opposed to Amphur. Water company and University also sound good ideas.
If you are interested in reading about my unfolding Thai house build story it is available at http://www.thaihousebuild.thailand-blogs.com
Mikos
 
Posts: 11
Joined: Wed Sep 12, 2012 12:57 am
Location: Phetchabun Province Thailand

Re: Bore Hole and House Supply

Postby Sometimewoodworker » Sat Aug 30, 2014 12:33 pm

Mikos wrote:Appreciate the update. I think I am starting to get the hang of it all now. Will follow your advice regarding further research. Will also post results of getting water tested. I might start at the Tetsaban as opposed to Amphur. Water company and University also sound good ideas.

There's a posting on TV of someone using CMU who offer the tests.
Sometimewoodworker
 
Posts: 1880
Joined: Wed Sep 19, 2007 1:22 pm
Location: Non Sa-At / Tokyo

Re: Bore Hole and House Supply

Postby Mikos » Sun Aug 31, 2014 11:22 am

Sometimewoodworker wrote:
Mikos wrote:Appreciate the update. I think I am starting to get the hang of it all now. Will follow your advice regarding further research. Will also post results of getting water tested. I might start at the Tetsaban as opposed to Amphur. Water company and University also sound good ideas.

There's a posting on TV of someone using CMU who offer the tests.

:D :D :D
If you are interested in reading about my unfolding Thai house build story it is available at http://www.thaihousebuild.thailand-blogs.com
Mikos
 
Posts: 11
Joined: Wed Sep 12, 2012 12:57 am
Location: Phetchabun Province Thailand

Re: Bore Hole and House Supply

Postby MGV12 » Mon Sep 01, 2014 7:37 am

For those who wish to follow the rules you need to get a water test done before using the water [Provincial Waterworks Authority can do that ... it was 1500฿ in Chiang Mai] and then get a permit to actually use the well from the Tessaban; which has to be renewed every few years. Many choose to ignore these legal requirements but [in extreme and unlikely circumstances] your well could be closed if you don't ... allegedly ... as always varies from area to area due to local 'interpretation'.

“Some days I am an optimistic pessimist ... other days I am a pessimistic optimist”
User avatar
MGV12
 
Posts: 5350
Joined: Wed Jan 23, 2008 4:23 pm
Location: Chiang Mai

Re: Bore Hole and House Supply

Postby Sometimewoodworker » Mon Sep 01, 2014 8:25 am

MGV12 wrote:For those who wish to follow the rules you need to get a water test done before using the water [Provincial Waterworks Authority can do that ... it was 1500฿ in Chiang Mai] and then get a permit to actually use the well from the Tessaban; which has to be renewed every few years. Many choose to ignore these legal requirements but [in extreme and unlikely circumstances] your well could be closed if you don't ... as always probably varies from area to area due to local 'interpretation'.

I think that it will also depend on where you are in relation to the nearest town, as we are in a small village about 10km from a small town we don't even need the house plans approved, nobody in the villages ever gets it done. So the same applies to wells, no permit, no test needed, no Tessaban involvement.
Sometimewoodworker
 
Posts: 1880
Joined: Wed Sep 19, 2007 1:22 pm
Location: Non Sa-At / Tokyo

Re: Bore Hole and House Supply

Postby Mikos » Tue Sep 02, 2014 8:45 pm

MGV12 wrote:For those who wish to follow the rules you need to get a water test done before using the water [Provincial Waterworks Authority can do that ... it was 1500฿ in Chiang Mai] and then get a permit to actually use the well from the Tessaban; which has to be renewed every few years. Many choose to ignore these legal requirements but [in extreme and unlikely circumstances] your well could be closed if you don't ... allegedly ... as always varies from area to area due to local 'interpretation'.


Thanks for info. As it happens I called in at local water authority today in Phetchabun. Asked if they could check the water. "Yes no problem and its free" was the answer! The lass then asked me to write a letter to accompany my "sample." Not sure about this, so I will outline what checks I would like and see what happens. No mention of permits etc
If you are interested in reading about my unfolding Thai house build story it is available at http://www.thaihousebuild.thailand-blogs.com
Mikos
 
Posts: 11
Joined: Wed Sep 12, 2012 12:57 am
Location: Phetchabun Province Thailand

Re: Bore Hole and House Supply

Postby Mikos » Tue Sep 02, 2014 8:48 pm

Sometimewoodworker wrote:
MGV12 wrote:For those who wish to follow the rules you need to get a water test done before using the water [Provincial Waterworks Authority can do that ... it was 1500฿ in Chiang Mai] and then get a permit to actually use the well from the Tessaban; which has to be renewed every few years. Many choose to ignore these legal requirements but [in extreme and unlikely circumstances] your well could be closed if you don't ... as always probably varies from area to area due to local 'interpretation'.

I think that it will also depend on where you are in relation to the nearest town, as we are in a small village about 10km from a small town we don't even need the house plans approved, nobody in the villages ever gets it done. So the same applies to wells, no permit, no test needed, no Tessaban involvement.


Same here regarding house plans bloke at the tetsabaan actually laughed when I asked him who I needed to see. :D

Regarding water test, see my other reply. However can't imagine the tetsabaan worrying too much after the reply about building plans.

I will post again once I get my water to the PWA and receive a report.
If you are interested in reading about my unfolding Thai house build story it is available at http://www.thaihousebuild.thailand-blogs.com
Mikos
 
Posts: 11
Joined: Wed Sep 12, 2012 12:57 am
Location: Phetchabun Province Thailand

Next

Return to water and plumbing

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest