PP-R pipe for hot water with push-fit connectors -- update

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PP-R pipe for hot water with push-fit connectors -- update

Postby MGV12 » Thu Oct 28, 2010 12:59 pm

I made reference to this product back in August '09 but haven't heard of anyone else on CTH using it so far ... an excellent product which is so simple to install and has now been in use for 9 months in my house with not even a minor creep from a joint. Installed by 'general' workers with no plumbing qualifications and limited experience, it caused them no problems at install. Mine was then insulated with the fibreglass 'tubes' you can get from Global House and no doubt other 'sheds'. It's an alternative to ThaiPPR pipe that HomePro and others stock, which is fusion welded at the joints and therefore needs a heater at upwards of 8000 Baht.

The PP-R Slym Lock system is manufactured by PB Pipe [Thailand] Co Ltd who are part of the UHM Group of companies. They claim to have been developing PP-R products since 1982 and have many patents. Their push-fit range of fittings work on the same principal as Hep2o and Speedfit which I have used for years in the UK with success; Hep2o is available in Thailand but expensive compared with UK prices. You can call UHM for a stockist in your area on 026519111; there is one in Chiang Mai just off the Super Highway near Big 'C'/Makro/Carrefour, they appear to stock the full range and at far lower prices than for Hep2o which has to be sent from Bangkok as well; adding to the cost. If you are burying in the wall you may prefer fusion welded fittings but I have buried many a Hep2o and Speedfit fitting, after pressure testing of course, and never had a leak yet after many years of service. Pipe and fittings can be used with water temperatures up to 95 degrees C

Example of cost when I last purchased: Heavy duty [20 Bar] pipe 32mm [nominal 1"] x 4 metre length was 106 Baht per length. A 32*32 elbow was 41 Baht. A 32*32*32 'T' was 65 Baht. My complete system from loft tank to one bath, two showers, two basins and two sinks ... in four rooms, on two levels worked out at less than 15,000 Baht. The fittings can be dismantled and re-assembled with no loss of performance using an inexpensive release key.

For those who haven't used push-fit before: the 'o' ring seal with stainless steel finger-type pressure clip, works on the principle that the higher the pressure in the pipe the more counter pressure is generated; thus ensuring a secure seal.

You can read more and see the range they do at --- http://www.uhm.co.th/product/sub_catego ... 161322_844

I know this sounds like a sales pitch but I just think it's a good product for hot water systems which I haven't seen in any of the stores in the CM area. Would be interested to know if anyone else has in fact used it.

“Some days I am an optimistic pessimist ... other days I am a pessimistic optimist”
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Re: PP-R pipe for hot water with push-fit connectors -- update

Postby Maseratimartin » Thu Oct 28, 2010 3:38 pm

The system looks quite good and will be also more and more used in Europe...especially for the "do it yourself" builders it is a good solution what does not require expensive tools...or special tools.

I personally don't like it as I don't trust the O-rings. I have a lot to do with hydraulic on our cable car systems and many times O-Ring sealings fail because the rubber aged...especially higher temperature dries the rubber out.
Maybe I'm also wrong, but when I build a house it should not be only for the next 10 years.
The best is still copper and the connectors and bows soldered! Nothing beats this...

The last house I build was 25000bath with material and done by an aircondition guy...cold and hot water....two bathrooms!
I prepared the walls that he can just put the pipes in place. Finally the system was set under pressure for one night to confirm no leackage.

The thai PPR pipes what are fusion welded will not hold when you use a boiler...the hot water is too hot and the fusion welding will fail....every plumbing guy in Thailand will confirm this! Don't ask the guys in Home pro...they know nothing and just tell you what the manufacturer cataloque says...
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Re: PP-R pipe for hot water with push-fit connectors -- update

Postby geordie » Thu Oct 28, 2010 4:07 pm

masaratimartin you cannot realistically compare a hydraulic system with oil that continually goes from nought to 2000 psi on demand with a water system where the pressure is continuos
and the pumped medium does not rot the o,rings as does hydraulic oil i have done all my own maintainance on two cherry pickers i have owned for the last 15 years and found 99 pcent of o ring failiures to be on moving parts so wear and tear has to be factored in with the o rings on a hydraulic system when you take them out you can see the degradation and also they swell when you remove them not so with water wher you make off the joint once the o ring has no reason to degrade the water will not hurt it although ECSESS heat can cause rubber to go brittle i too am an advocate of old school (copper) however sometimes you are forced to move on this stuff has been used extencively in the uk where ALL services are buried in walls ceilings floors with no planned acsess and has been in use 20 plus years i supose the quality of what you buy is the important decision and not the principal
my comments may be wrong but never deliberately
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Re: PP-R pipe for hot water with push-fit connectors -- update

Postby MGV12 » Thu Oct 28, 2010 4:22 pm

Maseratimartin wrote:
I personally don't like it as I don't trust the O-rings. I have a lot to do with hydraulic on our cable car systems and many times O-Ring sealings fail because the rubber aged...especially higher temperature dries the rubber out.

Maybe I'm also wrong, but when I build a house it should not be only for the next 10 years.


Dependant on the temperature and pressure in the system they claim a life of up to 50 years ... should see me out :)
Maseratimartin wrote:The best is still copper and the connectors and bows soldered! Nothing beats this...


I also like copper and have worked with it for 40 years but have you tried finding it here let alone paying for it!!!! Price goes up and up.

Now I use 'plastics' all the time and have not had a problem in over ten years of use with O-ring failure ... I always wipe the O-ring with a little food grade oil before assembly as it makes the fitting easier and helps to prevent drying out over time. I also used copper push-fit fittings with copper pipe and thought they were good. I would certainly not trust 'plumbers' here to solder copper joints for me ... no disrespect intended ... it's just not a skill they would ever have had the opportunity to learn. Dry solder joints [as in electrical appliances] can cause no end of problems; especially if you live near a road due to the vibrations.

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Re: PP-R pipe for hot water with push-fit connectors -- update

Postby Maseratimartin » Thu Oct 28, 2010 4:45 pm

Just found this klick system on the net:

http://easy-piping-thailand.com/page/wa ... ing-system

Just to share with you guys....
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Re: PP-R pipe for hot water with push-fit connectors -- update

Postby jazzman » Fri Oct 29, 2010 12:56 pm

How to build a $20,000 / £14,000 house and a $???? MOTEL Updated 21 March 09 - with BOQ and costs
Don't let this happen in YOUR house.
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Re: PP-R pipe for hot water with push-fit connectors -- update

Postby MGV12 » Fri Oct 29, 2010 1:15 pm

Here is the website page for Slym Lock fittings and PP-R pipe ... including the price list ... we were given a 20% discount without much effort on our part:

http://www.uhm.co.th/product/sub_catego ... 161322_844

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Re: PP-R pipe for hot water with push-fit connectors -- upda

Postby gliffaes » Fri Mar 25, 2011 10:10 pm

Im still not keen on plastic fittings either Ive seen too much stuff go brittle although it depends on what plastics etc Ive also seen waste pipes (sink) turn to dust slowly over the years ie 34mm and 40mm when exposed to sun, Ive used copper for a long time to its not so hard to use BUT you have to be very clean with it and careful to get nice watertight joints.
That said rolling up a 25metre lenght of hep20 is light and easy to bend round corners which saves huge amount of time I am tempted to bring 8 rolls in my luggage for my next trip haahaha
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Re: PP-R pipe for hot water with push-fit connectors -- upda

Postby MGV12 » Sat Mar 26, 2011 3:17 am

gliffaes wrote:That said rolling up a 25metre lenght of hep20 is light and easy to bend round corners which saves huge amount of time I am tempted to bring 8 rolls in my luggage for my next trip haahaha


Not a bad idea ... or the John Guest version ... you can get hep20 here but it's a lot more expensive. The PP-R pipe is not flexible in the same way but the UHM brand I used is good and available in different grades; wall thickness's. I also spent most of my life with copper and took a while to be convinced by 'plastic' but ten years have passed without [to my knowledge] any failures other than the odd one that didn't pass the initial pressure test. Unless you are willing/able to do your own installation I would repeat that I think it would be a struggle to find someone to solder a copper system to standard. The material is also horrendously expensive here.

Footnote: soldered joints tend not to stand up so well to vibration ... such as seismic activity!

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Re: PP-R pipe for hot water with push-fit connectors -- upda

Postby BKKBILL » Sat Mar 26, 2011 10:55 am

On my next build the plan is to use PP-R pipe and fittings the only different from MGV12 is I will be using fusion fittings. I’ve used this process with acid drains in Canada. Easy to do and there are no extra bits to fail. The joint becomes one piece and stronger than the pipe or fittings.

If using copper I would just have an air conditioning installer silver solder the fittings for you as that is something they do every day. Not only a good joint but the piping is annealed making it strong and flexible.
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Re: PP-R pipe for hot water with push-fit connectors -- upda

Postby CDNinKS » Mon Apr 04, 2011 5:03 am

Hi BKKBill (or anyone else who knows :D )

I'm just about to do the plumbing on my house here and need a bit of advise. Since I'm used to using copper in Canada and it seems that is not the way to go here, is the normal blue PVC pipe ok for hot water? I don't mean from a hot water boiler but from the small under sink units.

My plan is to install one of the multi-point units under the bathroom sink and feed the sinks, bath and shower with it. Can I run the blue pvc from the hot side of this unit to the taps?

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Re: PP-R pipe for hot water with push-fit connectors -- upda

Postby BKKBILL » Mon Apr 04, 2011 9:10 am

The pvc will not work as it is not designed for hot water. If you want copper have an air-con outfit do the installation. It seems it will be short runs and they will silver solder the joints. If it's a do it yourself use PP-R with press fit fitting as MGV12 has done. Hope I'm not interrupting anyone's breakfast posting here........ since the beer and pizza seems to have been cut off.
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Re: PP-R pipe for hot water with push-fit connectors -- upda

Postby CDNinKS » Mon Apr 04, 2011 11:23 am

Thanks Bill, I did some research and PVC is good to 140F, but I agree that is cutting it pretty fine and I don't want any problems. I think the aircon/copper idea is probably the best way to go.

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Re: PP-R pipe for hot water with push-fit connectors -- upda

Postby sezze » Fri Apr 08, 2011 10:05 pm

I looked for any kind of hot water fittings and even a call to the company listed here ( Uhm) ,nothing around Udon area ( KK the closest ) . Homepro listed the PP-R pipes , nice but that was for melting type joints ( impossible if you do not have the machine ) and Global had nothing . After searching i visited Toolpro and they had PP-R pipe with all it's joints of click type ( O-ring ) . Not expensive and nowhere near the 400 baht /m a local man was trying to sell us :mrgreen: ( i wasn't even half interested for that amount of pricing ) .
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Re: PP-R pipe for hot water with push-fit connectors -- upda

Postby gliffaes » Mon Apr 11, 2011 11:43 pm

I dont know the construction material used in the pipes you mention BUT polybutylene used in hep20 and others has had serious problems in the U.S.A due to Chlorine in the water attacking the pipework you can read what happened here . Its all the rage in the UK at the moment, Id like to use it but am very unsure having read this http://www.sagewater.com/polybutylene.php

Insurers wont cover you in the U.S now and lots is being ripped out.
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