wall estimate opinions

Specific to perimeter walls as of 17-May-05. If you're a reader in this phase of construction check in and update us on your thinking. Anything related to perimeter wall, entry gates, wire fencing or security.

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wall estimate opinions

Postby icecreamcone » Wed Feb 15, 2017 3:00 pm

Hello- I've read alot of the posts on walls in this subforum, and I've seen the references to the difference between a perimeter wall (cheap) and a retaining wall (expensive). I'm not 100% sure that the thais even understand the difference, i think to the thais I've been talking to a wall is a wall. I'm just dipping my feet into this homebuilding experience with no prior building experience, so I'd like to get some farang opinions if anyone is willing to offer them.

I've talked to a couple builders, and I like the second one because he has an engineering degree and seems pretty organized. I've looked at some of the homes he's built and they look good quality from the outside. We are building up the land about 1.5 meters now and are planning to build a wall and let the land sit for 6 months or so before beginning building. I received an estimate from the builder for his top of the line decorative wall, and it works out to 430k baht for the 92m by 1.8m tall wall + about 118k for the stainless steel parts. I've already decided that the stainless steel isn't worth it to me, but I want a strong retaining wall that isn't going to fall over in a couple years, and the fact that the builder is also an engineer gives me some confidence.

So long story short, he says that the main difference in price is using the CPAC concrete. He says if I want to go cheap and handmix the concrete and drop all the decorative bits, he can get the wall built for about 200k. I am attaching the estimate I received and would like any opinions/guidance on whether using the CPAC makes a 200k difference? My total budget for the house is about 2 million baht, so I didn't want to drop 25% of that on the wall. I actually have 3 million baht budgeted, but as far as my wife and the builder know the figure is 2 million.

thanks

1486786895456.jpg
92m x 1.8m tall wall estimate
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Re: wall estimate opinions

Postby Sometimewoodworker » Wed Feb 15, 2017 9:12 pm

I doubt that hand mixing will save that much over ready mix. FWIW CPac here is the cheapest ready mix and the best
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Re: wall estimate opinions

Postby AJBangkok » Thu Feb 16, 2017 9:44 am

I just paid around 2,100 baht per linear meter 1.6 m average for a 80m non retaining perimeter fence in Hua Hin. Check out the link below for Bangkok building costs. They have a perimeter fence cost of 1,200 per Square meter NOT per linear meter for Bangkok area

http://www.thaiappraisal.org/english/th ... efault.php
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Re: wall estimate opinions

Postby Andyfteeze » Fri Feb 17, 2017 11:35 am

On first reading , it sounds expensive to me. You say wall then say retaining wall (here we go again, lol ) 60m of wall , 1.8m and rendered on one side cost me 65,000bt.
It took a week and a backhoe for a day to dig the post holes.
Ordering from CPAC isnt straight forward cheaper. One m3 costs around 1900bt. Over three meters, delivery is free. Under 3m, its 950bt delivery.
So a slab pour is definitly cheaper, half a meter or so, hand mix is the way to go.
So is it a wall or retaining wall? BIG BIG difference.
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Re: wall estimate opinions

Postby icecreamcone » Fri Feb 17, 2017 5:18 pm

Thanks for the replies.

Andy I am also confused about the retaining wall vs. perimiter wall distinction.

Yes it's meant to be a retaining wall. What I mean is that the Thais I've spoken to seem to think a wall is a wall, they don't seem to get the difference. I think they believe all walls are retaining walls? It's meant to "keep the dirt in during rainy season". So I suppose the part that's underground is the retaining wall part and the 1.8m above ground is the perimeter wall? I haven't quite understood the posts in this subforum that talk about "the retaining wall portion was 3800/linear meter and the perimeter portion was 1500/linear meter".

The whole wall thing is kind of an unexpected expense to me, but if we have to build a wall I don't want it to fall over. The builder seems to think the main difference in expense is the decorative bits. Is it clear from his estimate (the amount of rebar he is using, etc.) whether this will be a strong retaining wall?

Sorry, I realize I sound like an idiot, I simply want to make sure we are building something that will last for a reasonable price.
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Re: wall estimate opinions

Postby Sometimewoodworker » Fri Feb 17, 2017 7:22 pm

icecreamcone wrote:Thanks for the replies.

Andy I am also confused about the retaining wall vs. perimiter wall distinction.

Yes it's meant to be a retaining wall. What I mean is that the Thais I've spoken to seem to think a wall is a wall, they don't seem to get the difference. I think they believe all walls are retaining walls? It's meant to "keep the dirt in during rainy season". So I suppose the part that's underground is the retaining wall part and the 1.8m above ground is the perimeter wall? I haven't quite understood the posts in this subforum that talk about "the retaining wall portion was 3800/linear meter and the perimeter portion was 1500/linear meter".

The whole wall thing is kind of an unexpected expense to me, but if we have to build a wall I don't want it to fall over. The builder seems to think the main difference in expense is the decorative bits. Is it clear from his estimate (the amount of rebar he is using, etc.) whether this will be a strong retaining wall?

Sorry, I realize I sound like an idiot, I simply want to make sure we are building something that will last for a reasonable price.


A lot of rebar without a correct design will not stop the wall from falling over.

The big difference between a retaining wall and a simple boundary wall is that a retaining wall needs to be an L shape with the base of the L on the side where the earth is higher. Or an inverted T with buttress on the side that is lower.

If the earth on both sides is the same height you don't need a retaining wall.

If the earth on the other side is higher then it is much cheaper to add earth to your side.

An example of a retaining wall is under

IMG_0502.JPG


When we added earth to about 2 meters high for our house we avoided needing a retaining wall by sloping the fill to the wall foot.
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Re: wall estimate opinions

Postby icecreamcone » Fri Feb 17, 2017 7:33 pm

Sometimewoodworker wrote:When we added earth to about 2 meters high for our house we avoided needing a retaining wall by sloping the fill to the wall foot.


This is interesting. The land we are building on is a plot of a size of our choosing on mom's land. So on one side is mom's house, on the other side is some land they are keeping for the other daughter, and on the front is the road. We've been advised to not go *too* high above the road level, we were planning on about a half meter. Mom basically showed us all the land and said mark the boundaries of what you want and we'll go change the chanote to daughter's name.

So I think we probably have the option of not building a wall at all? Her father already mentioned this, the way they explained it was we could just add an extra meter of fill and it would gradually disappear over a year, but he seemed to think this was fine. The fill seems pretty cheap, it's 250 baht/truck, and for the land size it seems to workout to about 35-40k per meter.

Does this sound like it might work? Would we still need a normal perimeter NON-retaining wall, or is that just a design decision?

thanks in advance.
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Re: wall estimate opinions

Postby Sometimewoodworker » Fri Feb 17, 2017 8:44 pm

icecreamcone wrote:
Sometimewoodworker wrote:When we added earth to about 2 meters high for our house we avoided needing a retaining wall by sloping the fill to the wall foot.


This is interesting. The land we are building on is a plot of a size of our choosing on mom's land. So on one side is mom's house, on the other side is some land they are keeping for the other daughter, and on the front is the road. We've been advised to not go *too* high above the road level, we were planning on about a half meter. Mom basically showed us all the land and said mark the boundaries of what you want and we'll go change the chanote to daughter's name.

So I think we probably have the option of not building a wall at all? Her father already mentioned this, the way they explained it was we could just add an extra meter of fill and it would gradually disappear over a year, but he seemed to think this was fine. The fill seems pretty cheap, it's 250 baht/truck, and for the land size it seems to workout to about 35-40k per meter.

Does this sound like it might work? Would we still need a normal perimeter NON-retaining wall, or is that just a design decision?

thanks in advance.


It's a design choice. But do put in a boundary fence. Things are OK now but that could easily change. You can do one for under 10,000 probably much less. Posts are about 200 each and the wire is cheap.

http://meekings.selfip.com/nui/Groups-o ... _Land.html

Is what we did for our second piece of land, I suggest the same but with plain wire

The price of fill is good if it's a 10 wheeler and includes the tractor to level and compact the earth. It's high if they ar 6 wheelers and no tractor.

If the fill is heavy clay the sloping the edges at 45degrees is a good idea
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Re: wall estimate opinions

Postby icecreamcone » Sun Feb 19, 2017 8:37 pm

I *think* I finally figured out why this wall is so much more expensive than normal. I think they are using concrete forms for making the wall rather than cinder blocks, and my girlfriend says noone in this area does it like that. So he's saying about 430k for a full concrete structure wall, and about 200k for normal cinder blocks (he would still cover it). I showed him the picture of the retaining wall in this thread, and he said something like that was very expensive. Attached is an example of the type of wall he would be making, it does have the L shape but not the T shape.

retaining-wall-sample.jpg
retaining wall sample


We got the 6 wheel trucks and a small tractor, I had the option of 250 baht/truck for some rice paddy land or 300 baht/truck for the same land we used for the first 50cm fill, and I decided to use the 300 baht stuff, it's not exactly the red clay, mom seems to think it will be better for growing stuff and is better land in general. The tractor is just to level the land, I don't think it's doing any compacting to speak of.

truck-scaled.jpg
6 wheel truck


tractor-scaled.jpg
tractor to level the land


Today I drove around with the wife looking for active construction projects to get an idea of the quality of other builders in the area, but none of the projects seemed quite up to the quality of the houses this builder has built. We even saw our first wall falling down, we had a pretty serious 24 hour rain here a few weeks ago and it took the wall down. My girlfriend and her mother seem to think the fact this guy has an engineering degree is why he's so expensive. He apparently has some active projects with Buriram city as well. So I'm leaning toward using him, but I want to get the prices down a bit.

I'm attaching some pics I took today.

road-level-scaled.jpg
road level where it meets the land


new-fill-scaled.jpg
new fill in an area that missed the first 50cm
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Re: wall estimate opinions

Postby Cheeryble » Wed Dec 13, 2017 12:47 am

FYI

Our guys just finishing a block perimeter wall 36m+. Unrendered.
Price 20,400 labour, 16,000 materials.
Plenty of rebar and a good ground beam, looks solid.
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Re: wall estimate opinions

Postby Roger Ramjet » Wed Dec 13, 2017 8:21 pm

icecreamcone wrote: I think they are using concrete forms for making the wall rather than cinder blocks, and my girlfriend says noone in this area does it like that

That is one very serious retaining wall and appears to be made by precast concrete forms. It would depend on what you really want, a concrete retaining wall that will hold your dirt in, or a wall made of cinder block that might fall down after a week's rain.
I even had piles put in under my wall because I know it will flood again (maybe in another 50 years), but it will flood again and mine will be the only wall standing in the street and I know the new drains they put in won't work.
So really you have to decide on what you want and can afford. Ask the Or Bor Tor/Tesaban engineer about what he thinks, but those retaining concrete walls look pretty solid to me and a lot better than a cinder block wall (retaining wall).
There have been some houses built on this forum where the wall has collapsed after a few days rain and I'm sure you don't want to throw money down the drain.
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