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chanote short land

prev article on short land. Since the previous article I’ve heard from a number of people who have had the same problem. One neighbor (thai/farang) lost about 1/2 rai out of 3 rai. Near the new land a thai couple lost 2 rai out of 10.

Here are the conclusions: it isn’t a matter of ‘survey error’ since the land is always understanded, and furthermore ‘survey error’ since about the 1700′s would only amount to about 1/10 of 1 % at most. On my chanote, the measurements are correct, simply the total amount of land is misstated. If the shape was square one could simply ‘do the math’ but with irregular shapes it is difficult.

Ms. dozer got in a discussion with a Thai ‘real estate professional’ (fellow English student) who didn’t believe this could happen. She has been in real estate many years and had never heard of this!

Apparently lawyers aren’t that aware, as at least mine said you would have to suspect the land is short for them to put in any protective language in the sales agreement. Obviously, he wasn’t up on this scenario.

Best explanation came from the land office who said that older title deeds are always suspect, especially with a certain officer designation near the signature line.

Obviously, prevention is easy – if you know about the problem ahead of time (ie buy subject to survey). I just still think this is just the most bizarre thing, that an offical government document is basically bogused up, and that so many people are continually, year after year, stung badly! Thai, farang, no matter, stung all the same!

Not sure yet if there is any recourse, waiting to see.

7 Comments

  1. Hi

    Im afraid its TIT and why should you expect anything to be correct, what a foolish notion

    Always assume you are going to be cheated, then you wont be surprised

    You should always set a price per Rai, subject to survey, end of story

    If there is any argument, go somewhere else or knock 20% off the price immediately

    you could do the survey your self with a 20meter tape. you must remember to triangulate ie measure diagonals as well as the sides

    if you cant hack the maths then

    take a sheet of a4 stout copy paper paper at least 80 gram, 100 is better

    weigh the sheet (perhaps have to got to a friendly gold shop)

    try drawing the land to scale as accurately as you can, cut out the shape and weigh the the resulting outline

    then do a simple calculation to estimate the area

    ie if you scale is 100: 1 1cm = 1 m then 1 square centimeter of paper should wiegh 10/10,000 gramms = .001grm 1 mg

    so if you outline weighed say 1.6 grams then you have an area of 1 rai i think

    its not perfect but you should be say +/- 2% (1600 sq m in 1 rai)

  2. I tend to disagree somewhat. Thailand has a pretty good reputation, and rightfully so, regarding land ownership. That is why the Phuket ‘phony land paper’ scandal was such a huge news item. Yes, it is a third world country, but people expect pretty high standards with respect to land papers, especially under ‘chanote’ title. This title deed is recorded in the land office and is normally pretty solid.

    Most people expect the information on the face of the chanote to be fairly accurate. That’s why I was surprised that the land area stated in the chanote is often understated by large amounts, especially in older chanotes. I think they are cleaning it up now (since about 5 years ago).

    The fact that I know several local Thais bitten by the same thing enforces my thought that this situation isn’t common knowledge.

    Agreed the solution is to buy contingent on having the land re-surveyed.

  3. Before I type this message for the third time and then loose it I’m going to type a simple message first to see if I’m really logged in!!!!!!!!

  4. My local land office has a document that goes with each chanote that tells the survey coordinates for the corners of the land on the chanote. If you can get a copy of this you can enter these coordinates into AutoCad (or equivalent) as points, connect the points as lines, and then run an inquiry to find out the area within the lines….more accurate than is needed. This will not guarantee that the actual corner posts will agree with the data or that the size of the land will be the same as on the chanote but it can reveal one source of error in determine the size of the parcel. If anyone wants more information on this document or help in inputing the data let me know and I’ll help….but if you email me post a message here to let me now you are sending it since I don’t check this email very often

  5. In the case where the land is a vacant plot between houses, is there a chance that it has been encroached upon which might explain the discrepancy? Has this happened to anyone and what was the result?

  6. Never did update this. The reason for the short title deeds as it turns out is that on the previous step to Chanote Deed (Nor Sor 3) the individual plots are not physically surveyed. There is a fly over done, typically by helicopter. Don’t know why the deeds always seem understated, but in any event MOST real estate familiar people will always buy contingent on a physical land survey.

    As far as land being encroached upon this can also happen. If it is a few centimeters it is normally left standing as is. If it is more significant a survey is ordered and the offender must rectify the situation.

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